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Advice from owners of 495, 540, 545, 575

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AJ-T View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:54
Good morning, I'm new to this forum, although I have been viewing for some time.

My partner and I are closer to our dream of buying a boat and living on it for at least 6-9 months of each year. We hope to have the boat in the Caribbean or med.

It's just us two for now but will be having a lot of friends and family join us, max 6 people.

We have spent two years looking at boats, going to boat shows, reading as much as we can about the brands on offer.

I've posted on a few different forums, the general concensius is buy a amel or halberg rassey, we both agree that we think they are pretty awful looking, not our thing at all. I get why people buy them but it's just no from us. We won't be taking on the southern ocean nor the artic! The last boat I was on that had water tight doors had big guns on it, pretty sure that's not needed for cruising on a 50ft yacht. Anyhow.

Hanse time and again seem to come up trump's for us, love the open plan non cluttered living. They seem to have a good following and are universally admired, well by most! The figures speak for themselves.

We have for some time been in contact with Phil at inspiration marine, seems a really knowledgeable guy.

When we first met Phil, the boats on offer were the 505/575 but with the advent of the 588 and new 548 looming ever closer there is more on offer.

So basically my question is, what would you do, go new or buy secondhand?

This will be our first boat. My partner is a yacht master I'm ex navy, so know a few things about the sea. I will fly back and forward to the UK for my work as and when.

I don't want to buy a boat too large but I equally don't want to out grow it and wish I'd bought the next model up.

Personally think the 545 is the nicest looking of the Hanse range, love the angular looks, it's size, 3 spreader mast, universal dinghy garage and all for 250 to 300k, many of them are tax paid.

The 588 I think we have agreed is too big which leaves the new 548, again this could potentially be another 100 to 150k more than a second hand 545 or 495. Am I getting 150k more boat?

Lastly there is the 540, again another beautiful boat, epoxy hull, still surprisingly modern inside and out, these are less again. 200k ish tax paid.

We would like to sail the boat back to the UK at some point or the med, if the tax isn't paid it will need to be, which isn't going to be cheap!

A lot of the older models are tax paid, so no worries there, and they don't have new boat issues.

The more I spend on a boat the less I have to spend on a house in the uk, this also concerns me a tad. Once I sell my current house I want to be mortgage free or a little mortgage so we can concentrate on having fun on our boat not worrying about paying big bills or me tied to working in the North sea for 6 months of the year.

Looking to buy next year by which time the right 575 might be in our price bracket too, another option but is it too big?

We were pretty set on a new boat but now I'm not sure, seems like we have come full circle and are still non the wiser than we started looking 2 years a go! Although we do know it will be a Hanse.

Phil has offered us a test sail on the new 548 when it comes over in September for the boat show, I'm worried once we see it, we will get boat blindness and want it haha.

So what should I do, go new or go secondhand, any advise will be greatly received.

Cheers

AJ.



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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 13:26
When you look at the boats i suggest that you consider some points i noticed aboard a new 445 that I sailed in company with last week. My son actually cruised on it & has made some comments. In harbour I have to admit it was absolutely beautiful. However, my son found that below under way he had nowhere to hold on. He sat on a seat & immediately slid off the leather seats . When we all returned from a meal in pouring rain even the owner had nowhere to put his soaking wet shirt & trousers & they ended up hung up on the backs of the saloon seating.
My son said the aft berths were small & his gear had to share the same place rather like the aft berth on my 311.
There was limited open shelving so if looking for things one had to open every cupboard.
The chart table was small & i noticed that they had fixed the chart to the main saloon table with sticky tape ( on a brand new boat) My son said that sitting at the chart table felt insecure.
The heads were weird. On my boat when under way the heads pan is at right angles to the boat & I have to either pee upwards or down wards depending on tack. However, on a 445 it is at right angles & one has to stand like a drunk on the side of a hill & pee at 45 degrees. Try it - it is really difficult.
There is nowhere to put the items that one wants out during the day. If you put it on a saloon seat it immediately falls on the floor. On my boat I have straight berths so have lea cloths fitted & can use one berth to sling all the hats gloves & bits & pieces I might want from time to time. Storage is really pretty poor

Just look at those items when you look at your proposed Hanse & just ask yourself if they have really given any thought to use under sail or do they just want a great big caravan
However, under sail it goes beautifully & if that is what you want & do not want to ever go below then you have the boat.


Edited by samuel - 22 May 2017 at 21:18
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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AJ-T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ-T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 18:48
Some valid points there Samuel, was he on a 445 or the new 455?

I'm hoping with whatever we end up with it either has a utility room or we can make one by binning off one of the heads or small bunk cabins. There I will have installed a washing machine and drying space for wet items with heater.

Leather is a no go, cloth only and yes we will fit more hand holds if necessary.

Good point ref the head angle although not a lot that can be done about that.

Cheers for your advice.
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 21:16
Apologies I think the latest version is the 455 not 445
I just know that it is an enormous caravan.
manouvering in to a berth the helm cannot really see the bow very well so I have no idea what a 50+ would be like
This one is reversed in, but I have to say the owner does it very well & the boat can be controlled really easily
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 21:51
only 2 of you with occasional visitors maybe 6, and only living aboard part of the year not full time, why would you go that big?

a 415 would be more than enough room for 2, easier to handle, lower cost to berth and think about the multiplying effect on all other costs associated with ownership, antifoul, sails, etc etc. 




Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand
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bovine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bovine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 00:24
Hi AJ
Which ever model ,new or used you buy it is going to take a huge amount of time and money to prepare and equip for live aboard . I would keep to 48-50 foot buy it now and sail it for a few years in the UK while you get it sorted.
David
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 06:08
We use our 385 for 5-6 months of the year as a live aboard. We didn't expect to, so didn't buy the boat to do it, but following the rule that the best boat to cruise is the one you've got, we did it.

Unless you are going blue water cruising I don't think you need to spend long getting ready. Yes I added some power generation and made some retainers for extra food, and a passerelle for med mooring, but then we just learned from other live aboards and added as we went. It's probably not the cheapest way to do it, but there are plenty of places in the med to buy the .things we didn't have, and quite often we would bring things from the U.K. On our next visit.

Anyway, the 385 is ok for us and another couple to visit, but too small after that. A 445 looks huge to me and would probably cope with 6 occasionally.

Having a dinghy garage would be on my list as I hate davits, and the thing we miss most is a second heads.

The boat sails very well, which is why we bought her, and yes there are some things that you have to think about 'downstairs' when in a lumpy sea, but all boats are compromises, and spending so long on the same boat you quickly find places for all the things you need with a bit of thought and trial and error.

Choosing a boat is that conflict between head and heart, with half an eye on what you are going to use it for, and probably a bit more of an eye on what you wish you would use it for. If you like the Hanse, it's pretty hard to ignore the pull.

In our experience the longer the boat, the less frequently it is sailed. We see sooo many 50 footers and upwards parked up in marinas. Most live aboard are 40-50 foot and most seam to manage with the odd guest ok. But yes we do see bigger boats being used and yes they do appear to cope ok.

Of the 10 boats we started to cruise with, we were the shortest and lightest, and had almost nothing on board except for lots of safety gear and sails (from club racing). We were also the fastest on the water, sailed rather than motored in light airs so saved fuel, but had to reef up and hide in strong winds whilst some of the more traditional cruising boats could manage. Oh, and we had the biggest saloon table for drinks and nibbles. We wander about at anchor much more than long keelers but at least the view keeps changing!

Phil was vary patient with my many emails and details.

Good luck with your choice



Edited by Mark&Catherine - 23 May 2017 at 06:11
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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tobo2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tobo2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 14:27
Dear AJ-T
Coming from buying an Amel or Hallberg Rassy to finally a Hanse Yacht is a huge way. Reading your pros and cons I think you pay a lot of attention to the look of a boat. There Hanse Yachts are for many future owners first choice. But having sailed a Hanse 470e  for ten years (and many more other yachts before) you should also find out about the qualities (sailing and comfort qualities) of a yacht. And this you can only find out by sailing/chartering them. For instance: Do you like a self tacking jib? Do you like a deep keeled boat of let's say 2.50m draft? (Could be a problem for the Carribean). Is an open and roomy cockpit with less wind- and wave-protection than on a HR ok for you?

Buying new or used often is a question of the budget. Two tipps: never buy a yacht that has been in charter and don't buy a boat older than 3-5 years. If new you have the choice of buying the additional equipment you really want. And here Hanse probably gives you the most choices of all brands.
If you want to test sail a Hanse in the Med, send me a PM.


Edited by tobo2 - 23 May 2017 at 14:31
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 19:09
AJ-T
Only you understand truly what it is you are looking for. However, this being your first boat it will be tough to understand what you may need. The old saying - you don't know what you don't know comes to mind. :)

I will offer 2 observations
- you are contemplating a very large boat for your first ownership. That size is not that easy to handle for 2 people particularly as your first boat! I'm not saying it can't be done but it is not the easiest approach.
- the new designs of quite a few brands seems to be targeting day sailing and the odd weekend. The design reflects that with lots of open living space and very little storage. For live aboard and longer sailing the older designs are more functional. So perhaps looking at a well kept used yacht (470 comes to mind), might be a better idea.

In any case, good luck and have fun choosing!!!
Steve
Steve

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AJ-T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ-T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 20:39
Hello.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, some great points most I have thought about to some extent others not so much.

Our plan is to live on it as much as we can, start in the med or carribean or where ever the boat is when we buy it. Carribean will be where we want to get to, do the arc and go cruising around the islands until we have everything squared away.

After we are squared away with the boat our plan is to head across the Pacific and do the trip of a lifetime. My initial plan was to backpack across the Pacific with my surfboard but since meeting my better half she's convinced me to sail across obviously I said yes!

On big passages we will have friends come and assist, watch keeping etc. A lot of our friends are sailors and out door types, their itching to come out and be part of the dream.

I have looked at the 455, been on a 415 but I'm wondering would I fit 4 surfboards, 2 paddle boards, bikes, dive gear, rib, two outboards, spare sails, bluewater big game spearguns, spares and all the food fuel etc on a boat of this size? It's going to be a kit explosion pretty much everyday.

I do like open plan, I like the loft style, but don't we all otherwise I guess we wouldn't be on this forum.

Someone mentioned a dinghy garage, we would really like one,makes a lot of sense to us but they do only come on the larger boats around the 50ft mark.

Is there really much of a difference between say a 505 and a 540 or 545? Handling and cost? Is it that much more? I have found that just the mention of over 50ft and people get a bit funny, under 50ft and everyone is happy, why is this?

We fully intend to charter before we buy and we haven't discounted bringing the boat back to the UK to get her ready for the arc. However if it's new, then we only get 3 months before we have to bug out or incur 20 percent tax!

What happens after 5 years then? Big bills new standing rigging,engine out?

I'm particularly interested in the epoxy boats at the moment, would I be wise to choose one over say a newer model that isn't epoxy? I understand the pros of epoxy and why it is considered by many as a must have. It's a shame they don't make the expoxy boats anymore.

I've read so many different posts on draft depth and the optimal depth which seems to vary from one location to another. I think 7ft is about the max, I know the 545 comes with a 9ft keel as standard that could be a bit limiting once we arrive at said desert island.

Some days I feel I should stop asking every man and his dog what he would get and just go get what I want and deal with what ever comes my way and sort it, bit of a gun ho attitude maybe but I feel there is never going to be a right answer. Or is that just too wreckless?

Tobo 2 thank you for your offer, do you charter out hanses? Or is it your own?

Thanks shipmates, some insightful info.

AJ






Edited by AJ-T - 24 May 2017 at 20:42
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