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Advice on air conditioners and genset for a 461?

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mcmanus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 February 2016 at 02:30
I am having air conditioning and a genset installed on my 461. The first a/c guy suggested 5 self contained units - one for each cabin that go in under the bunks. The boat has a heater installed that will never been used in the Caribbean so I could use the vents that serve the heater to have a larger central a/c unit. I have another a/c contractor coming to look. Any experience?  Thoughts? 

On the genset, I'm thinking 9-10KW. There was a 4.5 KW unit in the boat that has been removed so the support and wiring is already there. Anyone else have a bigger or smaller genset? Thoughts? Thanks.
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jeancharleb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeancharleb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 04:37
I have 1 Fisher Panda Genset that died this year a 4000I 2009. Bad conception water came back by the exhaust and ruined the compression chamber 3000 repair. I have 2 airs one 12,000 btu and 1 7000 btu.
7000 is good enough for bow cabins but 12,000 btu for stern cabin and salon is not enough 16 or 20000 btu would be better and not working to hard. Getting a genset for 230 volts systme you are right to choose in the 8 kws.


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iemand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 09:54
I wouldn't use the heater outlets for AC since cold air stays at your feet.....

That's why AC outlets are higher mounted.
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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jeancharleb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeancharleb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 12:52
Iemand has a point BUT BUT BUT
Hanse installed my air conditioning and and for the front state room there is no space for a 15 cm air conduct to go through ...they squeezed it to 8 cm in back of a wall. 
Secondly for the stern cabins the air conditioning was at the total back of the boat and to let space for stocking things they made so many 90 degrees elbow turns that no air was coming out.
Air is like water each time you have an elbow depending on size you can loose a great amount of cubic feet. Air conditioning and heating is all about volume.
The result is that both my air conditioning would frost since the thermometer could barely say ok stop pumping cold we have obtained the desired temperature!!!!
I changed the full installation reinstalled everything both air and all the air docks..


Edited by jeancharleb - 17 February 2016 at 12:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 16:40
Jean is right. It is easy to destroy a heating system with sharp elbows and with suddenly shrinking pipe diameter. We have many example of how the biggest vebasto will not bring enough hot air to front cabin if the last two meter pipe is only 8 cm dia.

I wonder how much condensate piping generates in cooling and is that any major problem if the heating pipes are applied for cooling.
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Wild View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 17:22
First, I will never use the heating outlets as outlets for the AC ,as iemand said, they are to low by the floor and the heating air conducts are farr to small for AC use. For 7000-9000 btu you need min 15cm conducts 12000-16000 20cm and still you have to install the AC units so close as possible by the in- and outlets with as few turns as possible to have a good result. Any extra 10cm distance ,size reduction and our turn will decrease the good working.
I will take the option of 4 smaller units(7000-9000 btu) than 2 ou 3 bigger sizes and not only for the above reasons, and install a time relay so they can only startup on by one. A 16000-20000 btu takes a lot more startup current (in my case +45 amp and this give sometimes a faillure of the 6Kva generator autm swith off by overloading)
I did the installation by myself so noting was build in by Hanse.
AC and generator in combination with Victron Quattro 3000w/12v/230v .The Quattro has 2x230v inlets
( wall connect and gen) and 2x230v outlet ,one for small consumers by the battery's over the inverter  and one for the big consumers who can only supply power when there is wall connection or generator on. I put the AC units to the first one to support the generator and-our wall power( in case this is to weak:16 amp) by the batterybank to startup the AC units by using a contactor who only close when there is also power on the second 230v outlet of the quattro, so only when wall connection or generator supply power, to prevent killing the battery's and solve the problem of the overloading of the generator or wall connection. on the control board of the quattro I can set up the max consumption off the gen and the wall supply so they will never by overloaded.
Building in a bigger gen was not possible by a lack of space.  
We have one 9000 for both afterkab, one 9000 for the salon who is normaly not big enough but we dont use this a lot, and one 16000 for the big front cabine. Normaly we use the AC in the kabins only for 1 our 2 hours before sleeping and this works fine.
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mcmanus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcmanus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2016 at 16:13
Great advice here. Appreciate everyone on this forum. Thanks.
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leemind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leemind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2016 at 09:24
Where do you plan to put the gender  generator? I am thinking of doing exactly the same.

Edited by leemind - 01 September 2016 at 09:44
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mcmanus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcmanus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2016 at 22:55
Lemmind - Hi. I have not yet installed either unit. According to the installer, there is plenty of room for the genset in the lazarette on the starboard side for a 8-9K unit. There was a 4.5K unit there previously. 

The first AC contractor here in Puerto Rico quoted US$30K for AC units not counting the genset. That was for 4 units - one in each stateroom and one for the salon. I was not comfortable spending that much - it was another $20K for the genset. 

Plan B is my next idea - any comments would be appreciated. I'm thinking of settling for not having ideal AC in every spot of the boat. I can save 1/2 of the cost and get by for about  $15K if I install one large (26-28K BTU) AC unit behind the settee in the salon. There is more than ample space there and it is easy to get to. From there, it is only 6 feet to the master cabin and no distance to the salon. That will definitely handle the salon and the master 100% which is my primary concern. I'll run an air conduit to the starboard aft stateroom - which is on the same side of the boat so it can be big conduit. That should get me 70% of the benefit of having a dedicated unit there. I can also run a conduit to the starboard aft stateroom with an inline fan. That would get me like 40% of the ideal set up for that cabin. 

If there is not enough air volume for the rear cabins, I can install a "Y" value to turn off the salon at night and direct all the ac air to the 3 cabins. 

Any thoughts? 
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