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Anchor

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hawkeye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkeye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:34
Hi all,
We have a 370. Having twice dragged my 16kg Delta with 30m of 8mm chain, I solved the problem with a Rocna 25. May be overkill, but we sleep at night! This anchor fits fine on the extended bow roller that is fitted as standard by the agent here.
Problem seems to be that the Hanse yaws from side to side at anchor in gusty conditions and the Delta drags a little each time this happens and can eventually break out. No such problem with the Rocna. The Rocna people here guaranteed that if I dragged their anchor, they would give me my money back. Hard to beat that offer. (They still have my money and I still have the Delta as a backup anchor).
Cheers,
Hawkeye
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Craig Smith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2008 at 14:36
Originally posted by colincooper colincooper wrote:

Actually I've just seen the Rocna misleading info even extends to our own myhanse site.  See the link below.  The table of "West Marine's own comments" added by Craig from Rocna is actually one of Rocna's own"interpretations" of the report.   Read the actual report and it is far more balanced.
 
The anchor might be pretty good.  Why then spoil it by misleading info?
 

Colin, this chart is a scaled version of the same chart as published by SAIL. The results are scaled to a comparable anchor size, because the original test compared anchors of widely varying sizes, with little consideration of this in results.

For example, you mentioned the Fortress and complained that the results look different. The aluminium Fortress FX-37 is a massive anchor. Were it steel, it would weigh over 25Kg (55lb). The bulk of the anchors tested were around 15Kg (33lb) - the Rocna for example was a Rocna 15 (32lb).

Of course, next time we could just send in an aluminium Rocna of the same weight as the Fortress - it would be physically larger than our 25, and could be expected to perform proportionately better than the 15 in a simple measure of holding power. Would that be fair against the other anchors?

So, our chart is clearly noted as our own version, and I believe it provides a much fairer and more neutral comparison.
Craig Smith
affiliated with Rocna Anchors
www.rocna.com
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colincooper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colincooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2008 at 16:08
Hi Craig,
 
Reading the report it says they tested the 10kg Fortress and that it was "half the weight of steel".  That makes it equal to a 20kg anchor.  That would certainly at the top end of the weight range but not excessively so.  The CQR was 17.25kg for example.  It is listed in the catalog as being the anchor for the same range of boat sizes.  It also beat the Rocna in the holding test by a reasonable margin.
 
The next best result to the Fortress was the Spade.  How did that slip down your chart?  Or the Manson for that matter.
 
I'm sure the Rocna is amoungst the top class of the anchors tested and, from the comments of Hanse owners that have one, it is a good anchor.  But your advertising claim is that, from the Sail test, the Rocna was the clear winner.  I think that claim is the misleading one.
 
The conclusion from the report is that the Fortress, Spade, Manson, and Rocna are the top performers with a mention for the Hydrobubble.  For the purpose of the original question in this topic the Delta came just below that top group.  Interestingly the Delta was mentioned as being a consistant performer with the ability to set quickly.  It was let down in the straight pull test not always getting up to the full 5,000lb pull.  (That result would conflict with comments from the other Hanse owners that say the Delta drags easily).
 
However, as others have pointed out, this was a straight pulling test on sand.   It didn't test other types of bottom.   It didn't test ability to reset after change of pull direction.   It didn't test a gentler surging-type pull rather than the massive pull of the tug.
 
It did validate the efforts of companies like Rocna to develop new types of anchor.  You do have a good one.  My humble request is you keep the marketing hype in proportion to your undoubted success.
 
Personally I'm sticking with my Delta.  If I had to buy a new one then I'd probably think hard about the Rocna or Manson.  I don't think the potential benefit is worth the price of a new anchor.  My second kedge is a Darnforth type.  That is good in a straight pull which is the circumstances I use it.  
 
If I wanted to be sure I'd set both in the modified bahamian moor as described in one of the UK sail mags recently. It used the kedge out the stern running to a block part way down the rode to the main bow anchor. This is tightened to have the two anchors pulling against each other.  This is good in the often tight anchorages in the Med and makes it more secure.
 
 
 


Edited by colincooper - 17 July 2008 at 17:05
Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2008 at 22:37
Can't say that I've tried a Rocna but I haven't had any issues whatsoever with my delta on the 400 - usually sets the first time, hasn't slipped,....  On a related note, it's quite interesting to get to an anchorage early and watch the different "techniques" people use to "set" their anchor.
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Stella*Nova View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stella*Nova Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2008 at 11:02
Originally posted by iemand iemand wrote:

Hi Ralf,
 
did you use a zink chain or a stainless steel one? Which length do you have?
 
We have the stainless steel one in 50m length.
BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370
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Colin Fisher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colin Fisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2008 at 11:24
I sail a 400 on the west coast of Scotland . Varied ground conditions ( soft mud / sand / weed mostly) and used a Delta 20kg for the first season . This generally fine untill wind swung more than 45deg when the anchor would break out and then started to drag.This appears to be be the bigbest problem of the plough designed anchors is ther inability to reset themselves.
I am now using a Rocna 20kg and I am really impressed.
It set very quickly and has coped well with wind shifts of up to 180 deg in a force 6/7.
The only problem is actually breaking the anchor out when even a Lewmar H3 windlass has to work hard!
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hull # 120 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hull # 120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2008 at 22:53
I sail in the Chesapeake Bay where we primarily have a soft mud bottom.    I started with the Delta which came with my Hanse 371 when purchased and then upgraded to a larger Delta.     I did not find the Delta to be a good anchor for the soft mud bottom encountered in the Chesapeake.     It was tough to get a good set and i had constant dragging issues.     I also found that when we would have a major shift in wind direction, the anchor would break free and not easily re set itself.    I switched over to a Rocna 20 last year and have been extremely pleased.    There might be better anchors, but it sets itself instantly and firmly and i have not had an ounce of problems to date with holding.    In my experience, it is far superior over the Delta in soft mud.
 
Jon
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Brightside View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brightside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2008 at 17:09
My experiences have been similar to Colin & Jon.
Was 10g Delta, now 15Kg Rocna on our 371, we also use a nylon anchor rode attached by an anchor chain hook to reduce noise at the stemhead and shock loadings.

Last weekend we anchored in a F6 and tried a tip given to John Alison and posted on Swagman’s Blog of attaching a drogue to the anchor chain at a point a few metres below the surface to reduce the yacht ‘dancing’ about the anchor (we have had +/-35 degrees in the past causing crew to feel seasick in a F7). We spent a comfortable and secure afternoon and night, unlike a Benneteau which dragged 150m during the night, but found the drogue had wrapped its webbing lines several times around the chain, probable due to the 3 tide reversals. Next time I’ll try using a snap shackle with a swivel.
Mike
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landlocked View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2008 at 18:46
Interesting to hear about the Rocna experiences.  I had asked my dealer to substitute a Rocna but he said he would have to charge me a lot more, I guess I should have bought one myself.  
 
We ended up going with an upsized Delta.  One comment about dealing with the location of the holding pin relative to the hole in the anchor shank:  We dealt with this by modifying the roller rather than drilling a new hole in the anchor.  I found that I could widen the notch in the midline of the roller enough that the shank would drop into the notch and this was enough to line up the pin with the hole.  I presume the notch is there to accommodate the vertically oriented chain links, but making it slightly wider doesn't seem to hurt.
"Kerkyra" 400e #042
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C.Fisher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C.Fisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2008 at 15:42

For anybody thinking of switching to a Rocna , the good news is that once the nylon roller has been widened on a lathe to accomodate the wider shank ,the retaining hole on the Rocna is in the same location as the Delta,thus avoiding any drilling etc.(This is on the 400 but I assume will be the same on a 370)

With regard to the projecting anchor channel which is fabrictated in 3/4mm
s.s , I have had to strenghen mine with a larger channel bonded on with Sikoflex. To date this seems to be enough to stop the side ways flexing which was starting to cause fatique at the end of the channel. Has anybody spoken to Hanse about this clearly under sized component?
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