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Do we need one battery for anchor winch only?

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Mikki View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 May 2012 at 21:17
I don't think so but we need more power for all other activities?
 
Here is an old link to the 370's electrical diagram (although my batteries are 110 Ah):
 
 
What would happen if I added one cable from anchor battery +-terminal to domestic battery +-terminal i.e. added one battery parallel to other two?
 
Please advise wizards who understand boat electrical systems?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 21:40
Hi,

Definitely you do NOT need extra battery for the anchor windlass. Here is why:

You always have the motor running while anchoring. The worst case is that you start the engine for just 20min. That's 0.33 hours. During this time the alternator is charging the battery with min 40 A. So the total charge will be 40AX0.33h=13.2Ah. Even with a modest 60% efficiency the battery receives at least 7.9Ah

To retrieve the anchor you need to run the windlass for just 3 minutes A-or 0.05h- since even the slowest windlass has a speed of 20m/min. (I assume you retrieve 60m of chain). The total charge lost to raise the anchor will be 0.05hX80A= 4 Ah this means that at the end you are left with the battery fuller than before.

Now the 80A are not a huge current for the battery.

It is better to use the engine starter battery and not the service battery for the windlass. The reason is that the windlass load is a big load applied for a very short time and resembles the starter load. On the contrary the service batteries are of the deep discharge type , their specialty is to handle small loads like lights or the fridge for as long time as possible. These batteries are also called traction batteries because they are used to power electric forklifts - a continuous load for a very long time, working all day.

Edited by panos - 27 May 2012 at 21:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 21:43
Like this, attached picture, note the red cable!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 21:45
Originally posted by panos panos wrote:

Thank U Graeme for your good words. We also share the same taste.

By the way I am an electrical engineer by training and profession. I finished my studies in Los Angeles,USA.
Panos you are an engineer on the topic, so may you know the answer!

What is the best way to reconnect in the situation as in the picture?

 
Mikki


Edited by Mikki - 27 May 2012 at 22:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:13
I did it the same way on my 370! Just connect both batteries when they are fully charged.

Now I rebuild also the extra main switch and the relais for the windlass only working with the engine running. Now I can also lift the anchor without the engine on.

BR Thomas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:36
Thanks Thomas, good to know that it works in your boat. Actually I am changing the batteries to AGM-type this week after which I should have plenty of power with this modified connection.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:36
Originally posted by Mikki Mikki wrote:

Panos you are an engineer on the topic, so may you know the answer!

What is the best way to reconnect in the situation as in the picture?

 
Mikki


Hi,

I propose two changes :
a) since all three service batteries are connected in parallel the red cable should be the same size as the brown one.
b) it is better to connect the windlass to the starter battery. Pls read my previous post on this subject above.







Edited by panos - 28 May 2012 at 21:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:42
Panos,
 
Very good, the red cable should be heavier, indeed (could not find better in the particular shop).
 
So you would just add the windlass cable on the top of the starter cable?
 
Thanks,
Mikki
 


Edited by Mikki - 28 May 2012 at 21:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:52
Mikki,

The starter battery is not connected to the service loads, so there is no way to deplete it.

The windlass does not have the capacity to empty the battery if you retrieve the anchor while running the engine. In my boat I removed the relay that doesn't allow me to use the windlass with the engine off to be able to release or to take a couple of meters in a hurry, without starting the engine. But in principle the engine must run to use the windlass. 

Just for the unfortunate moment that the engine doesn't start immediately (because for example you run out of diesel) I propose to have you you a car starting cable (only the red one is needed) to connect the plus of the service batteries to the plus of the starter battery temporarily  to be able to start the boat. (in this case remember to close the sea water cock not to flood the exhaust.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 21:53
Originally posted by Mikki Mikki wrote:

Panos,
 
Very good, the red cable should be heavier, indeed (could not find better in the particular shop).
 
So you would just add the windlass cable on the top of the starter cable?
 
Thanks,
Mikki
 


Indeed, this I propose. To remove the windlass cable from the service battery pack and connect it to the starter battery on top of the engine starter cable.
Panos

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