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Downwind sail, what to by?

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Fuego View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 August 2018 at 11:21
Hi! Im new to the forum and recently bought a H385. The boat has no downwind sail and Im thinking about buying one this winter.

 

I have a used gennaker pole/retractable bowsprit, 99 mm x 2000 mm from Seldn that I will try to use. I dont want to have a fixed bowsprit for various reasons (mooring length restrictions in my harbor for one). 

 

Has anyone here mounted that kind of retractable bowsprit and could give me some advice?

 

Thoughts on the following is also appreciated:

 

We are cruising short- or single handed with younger children so the need for a sail that will perform in strong winds is limited. I want something that will give us speed and stability for longer crossings and is reasonably easy to handle.

 

What kind of downwind sail would you recommend AWA, TWA range? My thoughts are TWA 90 deg -> as much as possible in the 5 15 knots range.

 

The pole I have will not take a Code sail with a tensioned luff (not without a bobstay in Dyneema at least, Im going to ask Seldn about that and about sideforces from a Code sail).

 

Any thoughts on reefing solution? Sock/snuffer or top down roller? Is the roller worth the substantial extra cost (or am I wrong when it comes to the impression it will be more expensive).

 

Im also trying to keep a budget so if someone has a sailmaker they are satisfied with in Europe that can make a sail for me at reasonable price and quality, feel free to give me a hint.


All input appreciated!

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415 Singapore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 415 Singapore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 14:41
Hi, congratulations on your new boat. We have a 415 and normally sail just 2 up so appreciate your concerns. We have a furling Elvstrom Gennaker and a furling Code 0 and are happy to use either in the conditions you describe. Yes you need a bob stay especially for the Code 0, but that is an easy fit. Yes we could go deeper downwind with an asymmetrical spinnaker but I have never been a fan of top down furlers or socks. The latter requires you to spend more time on the foredeck than I like and there are too many ropes to get tangled up. Bearing in mind that you usually put up downwind sails when the weather is good it always nice to know you can just bear off and furl it up from the cockpit when the weather turns against you!
All the best
Paul
Paul - Night Train - 415 #136
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Fuego View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 14:45
Thanks for Your insights! Do You have a retracteble gennaker pole or do You fly it from the ancor fitting in the bow?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 415 Singapore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 15:20
Hi, we fly them both from the same furler mounted on the anchor fitting. I would like to use a rectractible pole or bow sprit but not sure how to get that to work and maintain access to the anchor locker
All the best
Paul
Paul - Night Train - 415 #136
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mopoulter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mopoulter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 17:37
I use the  Selden sprit but a lot of modification was required as I bought the biggest one so it would
a) deal with code 0 without bob stay and to get the asym out about 1 metre.
here is a photo
When not in use it goes on the roof on chocks that have Velcro straps.
 
in light air (<5 knots) good to about 70AWA in heavier air >10 about 110 to 160 AWA.
 
here is picture of us with code 0 up you can just barely see the pole
 
mp

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gshannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gshannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 20:16
Grahame

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Ist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2018 at 14:23
Hi there. We also have a 385, equipped with both code zero and asymmetric. Great fun and would not leave the dock without one of them raised (unless it is 15-20 knots plus). Increasingly use them at winds beyond 15knots also.

Retractable spirit. No experience. But the asymmetric would fly better definitely if tacked from a spirit to get ahead of the main sail - especially at deep angles beyond 140TWS. But it works well just attached to the anchor stay.

I imaging your spirit would bend, if Selden says so, without a bob-stay. We are using a bob-stay even on the anchor spirit. Its a simple installation, an eye-bolt through the bow, accessible from anchor locker inside. Tensioned it with chain/dynema. Found the chain held up better as the dynemaa splice seems to give out a little tension when used.

Furlers. Definitely. For a code zero this is given. For asymmetric, we use the same furler drum and endless loop, but of course on another torsion line and fittings that allows the bottom tack to spin. As such, the economics, and importantly, ease of switching the sails, is easier when you don't need to switch the drum and endless loop also.

The furler solution certainly makes us use the sails much more, knowing that we can both raise and reef them from cockpit easily, and allows us to use them much more actively, on-and off as conditions change. Without furlers, I don't think we would have used them as much, and that sort of defeats the purpose of the investment.
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mopoulter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mopoulter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2018 at 16:11
My pole does flex but it does not bend.  And we do load the pole ALOT. So for now no bob stay
mp

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2018 at 19:07
MP, is there one or two attachments points for your pole? Looks like only one in the picture, but there could be something further aft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mopoulter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2018 at 16:12
There are three. One for fully retracted just forward of coach house roof, required for starts of races. Another about 0.5 metres more forward for Code 0 and another just aft of anchor locker for asym. This gives the max extension of about a metre. 
mp

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