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Side to side with a Dehler 36

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Docholm View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 May 2019
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    Posted: 02 December 2020 at 16:31
Thanks a lot for your update. 
impressing so why would anyone shoose  the std deep draft if the shjallow draft version performs  equally well? Do you have an idea about are there any specifics you know of favouring the deep draft version? 
btw I've heard that shallow draft versions ponds less in rough see / waves compared to deep draft versions but again that would favour the shallow draft version even more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Docholm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 02:09
Thanks a lot Koppiekrou, 
As you can tell I am very interested in the sailing capabilities of the 371 shoal draft version. 
You say ...No differences was measured compared  to the Dehler 36 with deep draft ? That for me is almost too good to be true (no offence at all) It's really impressing. 
What was the weather like during your comparison in the North sea? I would imagine the bigger waves and the more wind the bigger difference in high pointing over the ground  (including side-drift) and in speed? But I haven't  any first hand personal experience with an actual side by side test.
I guess the potential reason for the small difference  is  you are skilled sailor sailing rather upright  (with well trimmed / reefed sails ) and the the fact that the Shoal draft version of the 371 seems to be relatively deep (appears to be 1,74 meters in some statistics  like the ORC ratings   compared to e.g shoal draft Hanse 370 which appears to be only 1,60 meters? ) 
Any other comment about the shoal draft ? e.g. does it roll more more (from side to side) in big waves when sailing downwind with the waves coming in say 145 degrees from behind  or when laying for anchor? Have you noticed any effect the steering control of the boat in heavy weather due  the shoal rudder? 

PS if you check the ORC ratings for this shoal draft Hanse 371 (http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/#ISR/ISR063) and compare it the ORC data for the deep draft 371 the difference seems to be very small
sail numbertypedesignerowner
ISR/ISR063Hanse 371Jodel Vrolik-
lengthbeamdraftdisplacement
11.25m3.59m1.74m7175 kg
Max sail area 
maingenoaspinnaker
40.21m²46.52m²101.28m²

Thank a lot   
 


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Koppiekrou View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koppiekrou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2019 at 09:25
Docholm, we’ve been on the North Sea together again with a Dehler 36. No difference was measured! Not in speed nor high pointing.

I am still wandering what the difference wil be when sailing 60nm and if there is difference in drift due to our shoal keel. Maybe I will notice this this summer when sailing to Cherbourgh.

I totally agree with S&J. The new Dehler 38 looks beautifull.

For speed the biggest change for us was a clean hull. This winter we’ve sanded the old antifouling which looked like the surface of the moon. With a smooth and slick hull a Dehler is’t faster then our 371.

It was a lot of work but I feel happy when sailing. Not a racer but always nice to be faster 😉

Happy sailing you all!

Frank
291 4Ever - 341 Eternal Flame and now a Hanse 371 '05 Karma - Shoal draft - 2 cabin - 40hp - Variprofile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 20:15
I think the Dehler looks amazing inside.  Lots more style than the Hanse (38 Vs 385).
But I have NO complaints about the Hanse sailing ability.  In 7,500Nm I have never doubted the boat, even if I have had doubts about the crew (me!).
I think the Dehler is a better boat for racing as it can be specified with lots of go faster extras like carbon mast.
Although Hanse do market the Hanse as easy to sail, they also emphasize its performance - a true performance cruiser.
I have no desire to race my own boat (but do do crew on race boats) but I'm always happy to pass boats on the water. 😁


Edited by S&J - 31 May 2019 at 00:40
H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Docholm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:53
Originally posted by Koppiekrou Koppiekrou wrote:

Andrew, both sailing with a self tacker jib: 

Upwind performance seems the same and both pointing extremly high (<30 degree or less app.). Mind you: The Dehler with a draft of 2 mtr and the Hanse with a shoal draft of 1.7 mtr. This has surprised me and the Dehler positive!

With low winds (less than 8 knots) I must admit that the Dehler is bit faster or quicker I must say.   

But down wind there is no difference. And if there is the Hanse will outperform the Dehler.

The pointing abbility will be less for the Hanse when on the North sea I believe. Due to the shoal draft. But I want to believe that this is not true. Have to try it next year Wink

All in all the Dehler is a bit quicker but also she has less weight to carry and a bigger mainsail. So I am verry happy and I do believe that Karma is rather quick compared to others than a Dehler or an X or J Boat.

I am very interested  to hear about the 'Pointing ability on the North sea' for your Hanse 371 Shoal draft - once you have tried it out ? 


Thanks 

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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 17:23
Originally posted by Scotchmist Scotchmist wrote:

Rubato
Hanse bought the Dehler brand, which has a racing pedigree. Since they're selling both brands it makes sense to promote Dehler for Club racing. 
After 10 years with my lovely fast judel/vrolijk designed Hanse 312, I moved up to the  Dehler 38 (Hanse built) by the same designers, because I wanted the same speedy performance, though I don't actually race (except when there's another boat going the same way) . 

Yes, I know.
The point I was trying to make (and failed due to brevity :) ) was that now Hanse is focusing on Dehler for performance and Hanse for comfortable cruising. 


Edited by Rubato - 06 December 2018 at 17:24
Steve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotchmist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 14:14
Rubato
Hanse bought the Dehler brand, which has a racing pedigree. Since they're selling both brands it makes sense to promote Dehler for Club racing. 
After 10 years with my lovely fast judel/vrolijk designed Hanse 312, I moved up to the  Dehler 38 (Hanse built) by the same designers, because I wanted the same speedy performance, though I don't actually race (except when there's another boat going the same way) . 
Andrew

Scotch Mischief Dehler 38 by Hanse
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iemand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2018 at 18:52
Comparing the Dehler 36 (which is a great boat!) with my Hanse 370 the boats are more or less the same speed. The Dehler is much lighter but also with less sail area. 
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2018 at 18:01
I find it interesting that if you are interested in club racing, Hanse now points to the Dehler brand as the way to go.
Steve

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Koppiekrou View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koppiekrou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2018 at 14:39
Andrew, both sailing with a self tacker jib: 

Upwind performance seems the same and both pointing extremly high (<30 degree or less app.). Mind you: The Dehler with a draft of 2 mtr and the Hanse with a shoal draft of 1.7 mtr. This has surprised me and the Dehler positive!

With low winds (less than 8 knots) I must admit that the Dehler is bit faster or quicker I must say.   

But down wind there is no difference. And if there is the Hanse will outperform the Dehler.

The pointing abbility will be less for the Hanse when on the North sea I believe. Due to the shoal draft. But I want to believe that this is not true. Have to try it next year Wink

All in all the Dehler is a bit quicker but also she has less weight to carry and a bigger mainsail. So I am verry happy and I do believe that Karma is rather quick compared to others than a Dehler or an X or J Boat.
291 4Ever - 341 Eternal Flame and now a Hanse 371 '05 Karma - Shoal draft - 2 cabin - 40hp - Variprofile
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