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KobbSkolten View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KobbSkolten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Heaving to
    Posted: 18 February 2013 at 12:08
Hi.

Have you ever successfully" hove to" with Your Hanse ?

And if Yes : What kind of wind, and what kind of sails (reefing and trimming).
How and where do you tie the selftacking Jibb (if used) ?

I have tried heaving to in light conditions for eating, having other boats alongside, and fishing etc, but only in relative light winds, and even with 2 reefs in main and jibb backed i can't completely eliminate forward motion, I can only sail very very slow (about 0,7 knots). 
I just tie the selftacking Wagon to one side, tack slowly (to wear of speed while going upwind), and then tie tiller to leward. Is there better ways to do this ?

I'm currently reading the "Storm Tactics" book, and they claim that its very important to Howe to with absolutely no forward motion if there are breaking seas. But is that possible with our Boats, even with a para anchor/Sea-brake ?




Edited by KobbSkolten - 18 February 2013 at 12:10
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Sukris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sukris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2013 at 16:12
Hi,

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that it's possible to heave-to with no forward motion through the water. Part of the balancing act seems to be that the rudder tries to point the boat into the wind, while the jib blows the bow off the wind. Without some forward motion, I don't think the rudder would have much effect.

Grateful for other thoughts, though.

All best,

Chris.
http://graceofburnham.com/
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2013 at 18:38
I have had great difficulty getting the boat to sit neatly in the water when hove too in higher winds
It is one of the failings of this design
You should always expect a knot or two forward motion

I have tried just letting the boat drift in the waves with bare poles. It just rolls so violently that one feels one is going to be thrown out of the cockpit.( in this instance i was doing 5.5 knots down the face of waves under bare poles when i bore off)
I have not tried streaming warps as i sail in the north sea & with shipping about one needs to be able to move out of the way easily
What i have not tried - but might work- is to hoist a small amount of jib only & sail as close to wind as possible. I have an Aeries & this has been suggested by a others. I just do not fancy sailing into heavy weather to try it
I have tried motoring with just the jib & that is one option that calms it down a bit
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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panos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2013 at 21:19
Hi,
Last year we had a long discussion about the subject in this forum and also commenting on a video by a full time sailing family ( the purdeus or something like that) but I cannot find it anymore.
The conclusion was that nobody in this forum ever achieved to heave-to in a light displacement boat.


Edited:
The video is "storm tactics" by Lin and Larry pardey. But my opinion is that their advice about heaving to does not work, at least for light displacement boats.

Edited by panos - 18 February 2013 at 21:27
Panos

Hanse 630e - selling her -
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Ilkhanse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilkhanse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2013 at 22:39
If you can't heave to, then what? Why is a knot or so of forward motion a bad thing?
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Doug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2013 at 23:43
I have successfully hove to in a wide variety of boats -- lightweight dinghy's, small keel boats, and my Hanse 370. Your description of how you hove to is the correct way. But you will always have some forward motion. It may be a knot or two in heavy air, but it is not possible to remain motionless when hove to, unless the wind is very light. The main sail needs to be let out all the way, against the shrouds almost. The boat may roll a bit in heavy seas, but being hove to is a tried and true method of getting under control in trying circumstances. I often use this technique when I'm out by myself and want to take a break or eat my lunch. My H370 is a very comfortable ride when hove to.
"Red Sky" 2008 Hanse 370, #465, Doug Anderson, Deltaville, VA, USA
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panos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 01:55
Ok, half a knot is ok but two knots is unacceptable since it is fast enough to tack the boat!
I tried many times to heave to and unless the wind is slower than force 3 my boat easily escapes after some minutes. It just needs a couple of big waves and it tacks free, so there no piece of mind - the boat cannot stay unattended.
What is usually happening is the following: one or two big waves push the bow downwind and the boat immediately starts to run. Then because the rudder points upwind the bow starts to turn to the wind and should slow down which she usually does... But not always. After some trials she breaks loose, tacks and because of the blocked rudder she immediately bears away with full sails and gybes out of control. Not a very pleasant situation.
Cannot be left alone to "prepare a sandwich or to take a rest".
I have to find a way to limit the speed probably by employing a parachute anchor. But this is not called "heaving to" anymore.

Edited by panos - 19 February 2013 at 02:11
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KobbSkolten View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KobbSkolten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 07:58
There are two issues here i think.

One is being able to 'take a break' from sailing in normal conditions. For this purpose some forward motion is no problem as long as there are space, but if she can break free as Panos describes, its worthless, It would be better just  sailing with the autopilot then for making those sandwiches.
I have successfully hove to with my 312 in case of her being stable, but there have not been to large waves at the time.

The Other issue is for safety reason in breaking waves. Being able to eliminate all forward motion, and only drift directly away from wind makes a 'slick' that's supposed to make waves not breaking over your boat. Forward motion then supposedly brings you 'out of your cover' from behind this slick. This is what Larry & Lin Describes in "Storm Tactics". They even describe a way to check that forward motion is absent, by wetting paper an throwing overboard to see that it don't moves aft. Using a para anchor for this Purpose is OK, your probably stuck there for a while so it will be worth the effort. But does it work with our hulls ?

PS : My storm tactic for now is staying home in bed (or under if the conditions are rely harsh), so i have no experience on this issue myself  LOL

PPS : Before making this tread i searched the forum for similar threads, but did not find any, so a link would be nice..



Edited by KobbSkolten - 19 February 2013 at 08:23
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 14:46
Kobbskolten,
I would suggest you follow the advice in Larry and Lin's book there seems to be some that do not realise how to actually hove to. Now I am going to expect the flood of critisism that my post will generate.
Dave
PS If you want to stop the last bit of forward motion then it was suggest if i did nothave asea anchor was to trail a large bight of rope of the stern, This is what i will be trying this year. 
 
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 15:08
With boats like ours ( and particularly mine with an oversize rudder) there is a chance that the boat might jerk backwards.
Most owners will know what happens when we reverse with a tiller. The rudder overpowers & rotates.
If this happens in a big sea ( i am not talking about stopping in a force 5 here) there is a chance of damage to the rudder
I believe forward motion when hove too is useful. It may also get a small forward flow of water over the rudder to aid heaving too, depending on conditions
With the pardy system the boat can go backwards ( albeit in a circular course on plan) as it rotates around the sea anchor
This is not as bad as a straight pull from the bow but not suitable
Likewise using a sea anchor over the stern can hold the boat while the sea smashes the rudder
Adlard Coles wrote about this in his book Heavy Weather Sailing
I am not convinced that the pardy system is good for our Hanses. Their boat is a totally different design concept
Plus, as i mentioned, sea anchors round the UK shores are not good when there is a chance of shipping
The biggest problem is the failure of our forecasters to accuratelly forecast the weather in locallised areas. That is why it is important to have a basic understanding of weather & to monitor the days leading up to a passage to help predict those during the passage & make ones own "honest" opinion about weather .
Saying " oh it will be ok " or looking for the most favourable forecast whilst ignoring unfavourable ones ( we have all done it i am sure) is wrong
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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