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House Batteries

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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2017 at 15:10
Your logic is correct - i.e. the batteries are probably shot. 

However, it might be worth repeating the discharge test, and double checking that there is no other discharge occurring that is not being registered, before you finally condemn them.
Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2017 at 15:19
Thanks High Time

That was the conclusion I came to. Would you replace with Victron AGM again like-for-like ? Quote from Victron site....

The AGM range has very low internal resistance making them particularly suitable for high current discharge applications such as for inverters, thrusters and winches as well as engine starting. 

The GEL model range offers best deep cycle durability and overall longer life. 

Would I be better to switch to GEL ? I dont have thrusters and electric winches and have used the inverter once in 4 years... so my batteries never have a high current discharge. 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks

Tim
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 06:32
Hi Tim, how did you charge your batteries before the discharge test? Was it shore power or alternator?

Also remember to leave things until your starter battery to house battery relay drops out.

I've read that the AGM and Gels have different charge preferences and certainly my charger has different settings for gel and AGM, so you might have to change your starter battery to gel if you are going to change the house batteries. I'm no expert so I can't tell you what the effect on life would be if you connect disparate battery types together, maybe other know more.
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 08:14
Hi Mark & Catherine

The yacht had been on shore power for about 5 days before the sail in question. The charger on board is a sterling and it, like yours, has separate setting for AGM / Gel. The charger is set to AGM at present - but could be changed to Gel. 

The relay to isolate the starter battery kicks out at 12.8v - so I know that was isolated.

You make a really good point about mixing starter / house battery type. I had not thought of that. That alone is probably a good reason to just replace like-for-like AGM.

Thanks.
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 09:12
Hi Tim, sounds like the same set up. I have Been surprised how long the relay stays in after turning off shore power, can be as long as 20 minutes, and it's easily confused with my little solar panel. If I have it connected it can keep the relay in for a long time, but none of this should matter after 5 days on shore power the batteries should have been full.

Anyway all that aside, it does sound as though the house set is not in great shape.

By the way, we have an 85 W solara solar panel on the hatch cover just in front of the spray hood. It is German and super expensive compared with the Chinese ones, but it is also super efficient. I left the boat for 5 months over winter, ok its in turkey, without shore power, and the house batteries were sitting at 85% when we got back in May. It doesn't cope with our drain when we are on the boat, but does extend the periods between engine runs, and looks after the batteries when we are away without having to worry if the shore power gets disconnected, we simply don't connect.
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 09:20
Yeah... done... new batteries... I will go for direct like-for-like swap out. Thanks for your help on this.

You have stumbled on to exactly the next thing I want to do - I was thinking of sticking a solar panel in that exact place - on the hatch. What sort of Amps do you get from it ? Have you got the exact model number you purchased - does it fit exactly on the hatch with no overhang ? 

Also, have you put a wind generator on your 385 ? 
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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 16:56
Hi Tim

I agree with like for like but I have one question. Given that your batteries are only 4 years old do you have any idea why they have failed so soon? Have they had a hard life or is it just bad luck? 
Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 18:38
Hi High Time

2013... 
- new with yacht on delivery
- I think I looked after them well... 
- maybe by accident (as I was new to all this)
- they sailed about 1,000 miles
- they never dropped below about 12.4 under load

2014...
- I know I looked after them
- they sailed about 1,200 miles
- they never dropped below about 12.4 under load

2015...
- I looked after them
- but my marina did not !
- there was an occasion when the shore power was unplugged
- and the yacht was left with the fridge and other stuff on for about 6 days
- they were dead as dead can be when I discovered the issue
- I think they were about 11v when I discovered the issue
- they sailed about 1,500 miles
- they started to drop to about 12.3 under load on passage

2016...
- I know looked after them
- but did notice they just never seemed to last as long as they did when in a longer passage
- sailed about 1,100 miles
- they dropped to about 12.3 or .2 under load on passage

2017....
- first proper passage of the season and they hit a record low
- after 40AH they are just over 12v

Do you think it is simply a case they have been 'well used'... and the Marina Shore Power incident in 2015 was nail in the coffin ?

Ta

Tim

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S&J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 19:57
Hi Tim

Mark has previously described his solar panel installation in another forum post, including his creative cabling solution via the mast support. I'm sure you will find this if you search his posts.

His panel is a Solara M series which comes in a 68w or 70w panel (approx 600) either of which fit the 898x738 flat surface in front of the spray hood.

I am also looking at fitting a panel but maybe spend a bit less. I have found http://www.offgridtechnologies.co.uk have a number of suitable products: 80w poly @ 247 or 95w mono @ 437. Barden-uk.com also have well regarded Solbian panels including 70w @ 355.

I'm interested in your thoughts on these and what regulator you might use.
H385 #351 Ningaloo now cruising the Baltic
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2017 at 20:03
Hi S&J

Thanks - I'll look Mark's thread up.

"898x738 flat surface in front of the spray hood" - is that the exact size of the hatch cover ?

Now having a look at the products you mention - thanks.
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