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House Batteries

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Fendant View Drop Down
Vice Admiral
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Joined: 03 November 2012
Location: Switzerland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 08:09
Hi Tim,

did you install a battery guard in the fridge circuit?
Disconnecting the shore power by a friendly guest was the reason for the sudden death of my 2 AGM's also from 2013.  The cut off voltage set in the Indel fridge is set for old lead battery technology. I had the same values, 100% charged by totally empty after 4hours sailing with fridge, autopilot  and nav systems on
.
http://www.myhanse.com/protect-your-expensive-agms-install-a-guard_topic9882_post81927.html?KW=battery+guard#81927     
Frank
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Asj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 09:00
Hi all,
My starter battery, the Victron 90Ah, stoped working for a mounth ago. It did not crank the engine any more, lucky me so did it happen out in open sea as there was no wind anymore, and I decide to go in for engine. The resting voltage on the panel and with my meter showed 13.2V. What I did after, is that I took the battry with me home and set it on test, with a bulb. It lighed up my garage for days, and the voltage dropped as it should. Then charged it up, and mounted it in my boat again, cranking the engine with the stop activated. It then crancked for approx 4-5rounds, and then dead again. Voltage showed over 13V after the cranking. Battery now changed with a Optima Blue top AGM, evrything ok again, so crossing fingers...
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Manyata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manyata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 14:09
Hi Frank

No - I did not fit a battery guard. However I did fit a little gadget which sends me a text message if shore power goes off / on. So each time some plonker trips the pontoon power or unplugs my power... I know about it within a couple of seconds.

So new batteries it is... and at least it cant happen again.

Thanks,

Tim
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 13:55
I've done a little experiment today. Set off with batteries at 80% under engine (no wind) and ran for 2 hours. We also have a small 85 watt solar panel which was connected. After 2 hours the wind picked up so off went the engineer. After 10 minutes I checked the batteries. House batteries were at 13.1 volts, the relay to the starter battery was active, so still connected together, and the battery to battery charger was active charging the thruster battery.

I thought this might be caused by the solar panel keeping the voltage up, so I disconnected that, nothing happened. Checked again after 20 minutes, same again. It took 2 hours for the relay to drop the connection with the starter battery and the battery to battery charger to drop out.

Is this normal?

I'm going to try it again, this time with my multi meter in hand rather than rely on the battery monitor, although that has provided accurate in the past.
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 14:34
It looks like your house bank is in good shape if it took 2 hours for the relay to drop out. Did you catch what voltage it actually dropped out at - was it something like 12.8V or maybe a bit more? This voltage is adjustable (but quite fiddly IIRC). Also, what current draw was happening during the 2 hours?

Not sure what you mean by the B-to-B dropping out? I thought this was always connected and stepped up the voltage (to 13.3V maybe, for float), unless the house bank dropped significantly (<12V maybe).
Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
Admiral
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 15:57
Hi Roger, yes the relay dropped about 12.8. With the tiny panel attached and on a sunny day, the quiescent draw was between 2 and 3 amps, instruments and radio on, no auto helm working, then bumped up for 20 mins every hour by the fridge, that takes about 5 amps for 1/3 of the time so 1 2/3 average so say 4 amps overall for 2 hours is only 8 amperehours. (3% of my batteries I suppose)

The b to b also appears to drop out, in that it stops displaying any leds when first looked the battery type, constant current and time control lindicators were on, but all extinguished after the two hours. Makes me wonder if it's fed from the starter side of the relay??. I'll read the circuit diagram in a quiet moment
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 16:49
Hi Mark

Your post has stimulated me to dig out the manual for the B2B and check how it actually works! I think my unit is a BB121250 but will check next time I am on the boat.

It is quite a clever unit and only works when the house battery is charging (after a built-in time delay) and does shut down when charging has stopped and the house battery voltage has dropped back to resting level (i.e. around the point where the relay drops out), as you have observed. The actual words in the manual are as follows -

"Also, if the input voltage falls below 12.8 volts, the system will assume that the
input is switched off and will switch the system into rest mode to conserve energy. Only if the input voltage rises again, will the system restart."

My unit is hidden behind the panel below the chart table so it is difficult to access. However, I will try to observe it's behaviour (from the multi-purpose LEDs it has) next time I'm down.   
Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 17:02
It's also worth noting that the B2B input comes from the always on (i.e. not switched) feed from the house bank through a 50A fuse. This is according to the 2012 wiring diagrams I have for the 415. I understand the 385 is similar (but Mark can comment if the 385 is different). 
Roger

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Rod View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2017 at 11:37
Purchased my 415 in 2012 and the Victron batteries faded in 2016 and would not hold a charge. Summer of 2015 saw a couple of weeks when the sterling battery charger died and everything drained to zero and boat cooked in 50C. I guess a combination of heat and totally draining the batteries.
As Mark states there is some good info on the Victron website and when I compared avg temp with battery life it equated to about 4 years !!
Installed new Victron house batteries and a changeover switch such that I can start the engine with the house batteries - sure enough the Victron engine start battery died a couple of months later however the change over switch works like a dream.  
Now have installed 2 x Victron battery monitors for all 3  battery  systems. Very easy to check and they keep the history number of cycles etc.
 
 
Hanse 415 - "Ti"
Sail Nbr "UAE 415"
Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
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Ilkhanse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilkhanse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 02:02
Manyata, can you tell us the make and model number of the device that texts you? That sounds like a great idea! Thanks!

Edited by Ilkhanse - 09 June 2017 at 02:03
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