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Hull preparation (from scratch) on a 430e

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nibheis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 March 2017 at 12:19
Hi all,

After 9 years, the bottom paints need to be removed and replaced.
The whole bottom (hull/keel/rudder/SD) is going to be wet sanded back to gel coat.

The sail drive has been sanded and is now covered with 3 layers of epoxy primer + 2 layers of antifouling paint for aluminium.

The keel (cast iron part) is in bad shape and is going to be sanded back to bare metal before treating the iron and putting back the epoxy filler/coating to get a smooth and even surface. The keel/hull seam is also being replaced in the process.

Thru-hulls (and ball valves) are being replaced (bronze ones) and will be faired to the hull with epoxy filler.

The questions I have concerns the different layers to apply on the gel coat. This is an epoxy hull - but I doubt the gel coat is epoxy based, any certainty on that?

So, I got recommended to go for:
1) sanding (with 210 paper) of the gel coat
2) fairing of the hull/keel + sanding
3) 1 epoxy primer coat / water shield (the green one)
4) 2 antifouling hard paint (grey)
5) 2 antifouling soft paint (black)

Does having an epoxy hull make any difference ?
Anything I should pay attention to while at it ?

Thanks you!

nibheis
https://agile4life.blog



Edited by nibheis - 28 March 2017 at 15:56
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2017 at 15:47
No, no difference for the epoxy hull. As you mentioned, gel coat is not epoxy. I stripped the paint down on Rubato 2 years ago similar to you. I think you need more than 1 coat of the epoxy primer (believe 3 is recommended to build up the barrier). I used just 2 coats of hard antifoul, no soft....

Good luck!
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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nibheis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nibheis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2017 at 09:47
Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Yes indeed, after the epoxy primer I need to add a couple of layers of epoxy waterproofing and then the antifoul paints.

I always used soft antifoul paints (not the softest, but the intermediate one)... but this time we're about to set sails for more than a year. Does it make sense to use a softer paint on top of the hard one, or should we stick to the hard paint layers and scrub it from time to time ?

The idea is to sail on the soft paint, and when the hard one starts to appear (different color), we know it's time for a new bottom paint.

nibheis
https://agile4life.blog
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2017 at 16:56
I'm not sure it makes sense to use the soft over the hard if the only purpose is to see when the outer layer is worn away. Out epoxy barrier is light grey and I use a semi-hard anti-foul in black. So it is very easy to see where the antifoul wears away.  We do wipe the bottom down every so often by having someone dive the boat before races mostly. It needs more attention in the summer when the growth happens a bit faster but mostly we have slime not Mussell farms or vegetable gardens :)
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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nibheis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nibheis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2017 at 15:54
Thanks for your input, again. I am still not sure about what to do after the epoxy barrier.
I don't feel confident with sailing on the epoxy once the semi-hard is gone, but maybe it's just me and there's nothing wrong with this.
How long would 2 coats of semi-hard last while sailing ?

nibheis
https://agile4life.blog

Edited by nibheis - 31 March 2017 at 15:56
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Alain & Anne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alain & Anne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2017 at 16:21
Hi Pierre Olivier,
Our Uhambo was launched in 2007 and we logged more than 45000nm during the 8 years of our circumnavigation. 
We used to haul the boat out every year for winter, excepted when we were in Patagonia. We get used to apply two layers of soft AF every year. It is easier to clean and allow any change of the AF brand, which is a quite common challenge when sailing round the world.
Hauling the boat out every year gives a chance to check all of the underpants, like sea cock, sail drive seals, rudder bearing....
This year we are going to make an extensive check up including hull cleaning. Regarding the epoxy coating which was applied on the gelcoat before the AF, I should say that it remains in perfect condition. 
Anymore questions are more than welcome.
Alain

UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC-RCYC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr

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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2017 at 18:07
I put 2 coats of AF on in early 2015. In 2016 I hauled the boat and only did touch up on the AF. Had a diver under the boat this morning (almost 2 years later) and the AF is still great. Starting to show a little wear near the bow. I'm feeling lucky :)  Before this, I would typically apply another coat of AF after 18 months or so. It totally depends on the type of AF you're using and the waters that you're in of course. 

You seem to be worried about what happens when the AF is gone but that never happens. It will wear faster in a few spots first, you'll see signs of the primer starting to show through and at that point you'll haul her out and add another coat or two. Unless of course you plan on going on extended world wide tours with it..... :)
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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nibheis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nibheis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 07:15
Hi Steve and Alain,

Thanks to both of you for your much appreciated inputs.

Right now (after this discussing), I am satisfied to go for:
- complete wet sanding (with wheat, not sand)
- fairing and sanding of the hull and the thru-hulls
- 1 coat of epoxy primer
- 2 coats of epoxy barrier
- 2 coats of semi-hard AF

Thru-hulls should look like this after the fairing:


The sail-drive is also getting dressed for the big show:


This is the 9~10 year maintenance, and the bottom is not looking that great right now.
I suppose the previous owner did a single coat of epoxy primer directly on the unprepared gel coat. Parts of this coat are going away while pressure washing (see pictures).
On the keel side of things, it's been rusting behind the epoxy filler (creating some voids I spotted this winter), see pictures.





No plans of round the world for now ; we're just preparing for (most probably) a full year of sailing. Still not sure about where we'll get to, but Canada is a possibility Steve.

First, we need to get this hull sorted out :-)

nibheis
https://agile4life.blog
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2017 at 17:22
She's going to be brand new when you're done! If you do find yourself over here in Canada, please do let me know!!!
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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