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Jeffa Autopilot Failure

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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2018 at 13:33
Hi Steve

On thinking about it, if you change the drag link mounting point on the rudder quadrant you are changing the length of travel of the rudder feedback unit. This was calibrated as part of the original commissioning dockside set-up process  when the drag link was attached to the inner fixing point. 

I had to dig out my copy of the AP24 Operators Manual to see how to do this. It's actually quite simple - effectively just turning the wheel to the end stop on starboard and port and resetting the zero point (since I had slightly turned feedback unit to better align with the draglink.

The rest of the commissioning set-up parameters don't need changing.

The DD1 is now driving the rudder on the outer fixing hole, which should reduce the load on the motor slightly. I haven't tried it at sea yet but it all appears to work fine at the dockside.

I'll report again if there are any problems 'at sea'.
Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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fulanito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fulanito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2018 at 03:38
Thanks Kipwrite for taking the time and effort to share this incident which could have had a potential deadly outcome.
The DD1 motor is stretched beyond its limits for a 50ft loaded vessel. I believe that it has been incorrectly "sized" to operate above the SWL using a calm to moderate seas rudder loading scenario. 
Hanse is launching a new 508 model (same haul- new deck) in the next couple of months. It will be interesting to see what AP will be used.
Cheers
GG
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KiaOraSailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiaOraSailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2018 at 08:54
Hi Kipwrite,
I'm new here in this forum and your post had triggered me to contact Jefa in Denmark about a similar problem that we encountered on our H505 #92. Autopilot drive failed recently.
The support by Jefa was superb - after few hours I received detailed response by their technical lead on that, including drawings and results from discussions with Hanse designers.
Their statements were mainly:
1) the DD1 ist NOT undersized for the 505 (misleading statement on their website, and the 505 has rather low rudder forces for a 55ft boat - yes, I would agree!)
2) it is important to install the drive correctly:
"We have talked about your case here internal, and have may be a clue what could be the reason on the failure of the drive unit. Please look at the attached buildcard on part no.6, the draglink from the drive to the tillerarm on the quadrant. Please check that your draglink is mounted in the outer hole as on the buildcard. And not in the inner hole I could expect was done. It will give a much stronger drive, and are constructed for that."

So, when looking at your photo this is/was not done on your boat... have you meanwhile checked or changed?
This is from their buildcard:



Good luck

Walter
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kipwrite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipwrite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2018 at 17:10
Walter
Thanks for your note.
I’m very curious to hear about how your Jeffa unit failed, and if it jammed the helm.
Was your drag link mounted to the wrong hole as well?
In the end I had my DD1 unit repaired and reinstalled, and the drag link is now mounted on the correct, outer hole on the tiller arm as shown on the build card.
My intent is to use the DD1 a back up unit to a linear hydraulic drive I will use as a primary.
It appears I may have to add a mounting point on the quadrant to get this larger hydraulic unit to fit. There’s not quite enough room for any of these to fit into the tight space and connect to the tiller arm.
Curious if anyone out there had tackled this?
Once this is all sorted I will post photos.
Kipwrite
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KiaOraSailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiaOraSailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2018 at 18:47
Hi Kipwrite,
Luckily the drive did not jam the helm in our situation and I can't even tell you how it failed since this had happened to a charter crew ... and I still don't know about the root cause.
Meanwhile the unit is repaired and back on board.
The technical crew confirmed that the tiller arm connection was correct before.
I will still try to rely on the design and give it a second try. Will keep you updated here.

Cheers
Walter
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2018 at 17:28
Originally posted by High Time High Time wrote:

Hi Steve

On thinking about it, if you change the drag link mounting point on the rudder quadrant you are changing the length of travel of the rudder feedback unit. This was calibrated as part of the original commissioning dockside set-up process  when the drag link was attached to the inner fixing point. 

I had to dig out my copy of the AP24 Operators Manual to see how to do this. It's actually quite simple - effectively just turning the wheel to the end stop on starboard and port and resetting the zero point (since I had slightly turned feedback unit to better align with the draglink.

The rest of the commissioning set-up parameters don't need changing.

The DD1 is now driving the rudder on the outer fixing hole, which should reduce the load on the motor slightly. I haven't tried it at sea yet but it all appears to work fine at the dockside.

I'll report again if there are any problems 'at sea'.

Roger, of course you are right. I was a little too quick in my response keying on the term "rudder feedback unit". As you pointed out, it actually isn't connected to the rudder, it's connected to the drive (should be called drive feedback unit :) ) and thus calibration is definitely needed. 
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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Samtutuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Samtutuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2018 at 02:40
My latest model 315 also has a DD1. 

 In spite of Jeffa and Hanse saying DD1 can handle a 50 foot boat I am "impressed' that what is good enough for a 315 is also good enough on a 505!!
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KiaOraSailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiaOraSailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2018 at 17:28
Hi Kipwrite,
Finally I can give you a short statement about what was wrong on our autopilot drive.
However, it's not much to report, but our tech crew told me that
"... The graphite contact pins were „twisted“ (or in wrong position?) which had blown the fuse.
So the contact pins and fuse were replaced and the entire unit overhauled..."
No pictures of the damage available, sorry.

I remember that we always felt quite unusual vibrations on the steering wheels when running on engine - even with much less than normal speed. So, I considered that these permanent vibrations might have had impact back to the AP drive? But under sails everything fine and no vibrations.

Has anyone made similar experience? Perhaps caused by the folding prop?

So I got back to Jefa with that info and idea but they neither have a clue of the root cause for the AP failure nor believe that it might have been the vibrations in the steering system.
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