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Keel Loss

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robh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Keel Loss
    Posted: 07 February 2018 at 02:55
I have read alot about boats losing the keel and these all appear to be very light weight boats, has this ever happened to a Hanse of any size as I have never seen any reports of this?

Regards,

Rob H
Cheers,

Rob
"Blue Horizon" Hanse 341#113 Portsmouth Harbour UK
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Carlosailfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlosailfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2018 at 07:42
Hello Rob,

this was also my concern, coming from a steel sail yacht of 20 tonnes with a lot of work i decided to go for more sailing less working :). I looked everywhere and could not find any single incident of keel loss for Hanse. As the owner of a 385 I looked carefully to the construction of the boat and i can tell you i am not disappointed. In a nutshell, you get a good structured sail yacht for a reasonable price, equipment is all in the premium range and yes the internal wood and trim looks fine but has not the same quality some more expensive ones but that is personal to spent more ( 100 K Ä easily ) if you make a point of it. There is one thing, and this is not only valid for Hanse, if you hit something with the rudder, this can be dangerous. If the connection between the hull and the inner shaft of the rudder cracks, then you go down. But this is a general rule not only for Hanse. if you Google there are a few Hanse's who joined the seabed but there are always a lot of elements ( maintenance, inspections etc... ) who have an impact so this does not make from a Hanse a bad sailjacht.
 
Best regards
/C
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robh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2018 at 14:39

Thanks for your response on this, its encouraging to know other Hanse owners consider the same things as me ant that they are well funded craft. There have been many posts on this forum in connection with rudders delaminating, filling with water, etc but I donít recall seeing any relating to the main stock breaking to let in volumes of water. Rudder failure may cause loss of steering, which is not good but unless it was a stock failure should not be as catastrophic as the keel falling off to result in the boat on the sea bottom.  The boat would stay upright and there should also be every possibility of engineering a temporary fix to the resulting leak, prevent total loss of the boat and give time for a rescue.

Cheers,

Rob
"Blue Horizon" Hanse 341#113 Portsmouth Harbour UK
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robh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2018 at 15:57

Thanks for your response on this.

There have been many posts on this forum in connection with rudders delaminating, filling with water, etc but I donít recall seeing any relating to the main stock breaking which may let in volumes of water. Rudder failure may cause loss of steering, which is not good but unless it was a stock failure should not be as catastrophic as the keel falling off to result in the boat on the sea bottom.  The boat would stay upright and there should also be every possibility of engineering a temporary fix to any resulting leak if not the steering to prevent total loss of the boat and give time for a rescue.

Cheers,

Rob
"Blue Horizon" Hanse 341#113 Portsmouth Harbour UK
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Persse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Persse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2018 at 23:35
Just a rough ranking of the top of my head.

Causes of sinking:

1 Through water inlet tubing/through hull failure.

2 Navigation/ anchoring operator error onto rocks/shallows

3 Rig failure leading to hull damage from spar slamming the side.

4 Accidental collision with floating object with hull penetrated.

Don't know how accurate this is in real life statistics, but the point is that keel failure on a Hanse is very unlikely, the boats a well engineered in that regard. I check that area regularly but I don't lose any sleep over it.

Phil O
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robh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 13:19

Great reply Phil.

Your last line comments reflect my thinking on this subject as I did do a lot of research before I purchased my Hanse. However, with all the reports of keel failure that have been in the press over the past few years, especially the one of the Oyster yacht Polina Star III, this question always comes to mind.

I suppose if the keel has been subjected to a violent contact even a well founded Hanse could suffer but not through poor quality build.

Thanks again for the responses and I wish you all happy and safe sailing in your well built Hanse.

Cheers,

Rob
"Blue Horizon" Hanse 341#113 Portsmouth Harbour UK
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jeb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 13:36
There was one Hanse 371 that sunk outside scotland in 2004/5 due to broken rudder shaft. It was discussed at the forum at that time. The name of the boat was Megawatt. The root cause was that the owner had drilled a hole thrue tha shaft (rudder post) to fitt the tiller-arm for his autopilot. No one died but the life raft did not inflate. They were lucky to sail together with another boat who picked them up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlosailfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 19:45
One critical point, if you hit someting massive with the rudder and this tube rips off the hull, you are going down. I am thinking to reinforce it. 

In 2015 there was a 430 e hitting a rock with the rudder and the tube came loose from the hull. Luckely he was in the harbour and could save his yacht. 


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/C
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2018 at 15:26
Most yachts are designed that the rudder is less deep than the keel so that the keel takes the first hit.
In the case you have just described is it possible that the yacht reversed on to the obstruction and so the rudder took the full impact loading?
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout & shallow keel, normally based in Scotland
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robh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2018 at 21:15
Thanks for the further comments, all appreciated.

I agree with the comments that rudder damage could be the cause of a sinking but this damage would likely be due to an error of judgment by the skipper at that time and water ingress likely over a period of time. The skipper would be aware of the damage and may be able to take action to attempt a temporary repair, as the yacht should remain a stable platform whilst taking on water and sinking. Where a keel has fallen off on the boats that have been subject to this it is immediate and the boat turns turtle. This could be due to damage from an earlier event but in some cases appears to be the result of poor design. However it doesnít matter what the cause loss of the keel is almost certainly going to end in the loss of the boat.

Cheers,

Rob
"Blue Horizon" Hanse 341#113 Portsmouth Harbour UK
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