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New seacocks/thru-hulls

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StavrosNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2018 at 20:55
Hi Steve (Rubato) trudesign products are glass (glass fibre) filled nylon. Dont confuse this with skin fitting by Plastimo or others that simply Polypropylene and considerably inferior.

The Trudesign products have European, US, Bureau Veritas and International Marine certification.

I would drop them an email regarding split resistance re: frozen water: http://www.trudesignmarine.com

I have no affiliations with them but love their products.
Stephen
2010 H400, Auckland, New Zealand
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seileren1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seileren1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2018 at 22:09
Hi guys,

Last year I had my seacooks changed to trudesign. Of my 11 original sea cocks, one was so coroded that it was an imminent risk of leakage. The others were in various statens of corrosion. The boat is from 2012.

Cheers

Edited by seileren1 - 23 January 2018 at 22:09
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 00:03
Thought I would share my inquiry to TruDesign regarding resistance to cracking due to freezing. Very quick, straight forward and positive reply.....

The question was:

I read about your through-hull fittings on your web site and am finding that a number of fellow Hanse (sailboat) owners are starting to use your products. I understand that the material that you use is not regular plastic but my question is regarding the resistance to cracking due to freezing. We are in a fairly mild climate (Vancouver, Canada) and the boat is in the water all year around. The basin the boat is moored in is fed by a fresh water creek so the top layer of water has very little salt, freezing quite easily if the temperature drops below zero which is a couple of times during winter. Would this be a concern with your product? What is the resistance to cracking from water freezing within them relative to a bronze fitting?

The answer:
Hi Steve

The Composite material our fittings are moulded in is a special polymer with a fibreglass content similar to the std fiberglass hull material.

We have carried out freeze tests on our Composite ball valve assembly to -18 (lowest freezer temperature in NZ) and no problem with cracking.
There is a U Tube clip of one of our freezing tests.
Our largest market for the past 6 years has been the Nordic region where they experience freezing conditions in their winter with no problems.

We have no concerns with cracking due to below temperatures


 
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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silversailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silversailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 01:12
My Hanse has spent it's life (and continues to spend it's life) in fresh water. Do I need to be concerned about seacocks?  What would those of you who are much more knowledgeable about this topic than me recommend?
Thanks.
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
Hanse 370e, #9
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 10:36
Hello Silversailor
The one to answer this question is yourself!
The problem with brass seacocks, is that currents in the salt water steals the zinc from the brass. And when the brass contains 36-39% zinc, the seacock will look like a swiss cheese, when only the copper is left.
I know for sure, that your saildrive is equipped with an zinc-anode like this

If your anode looks brand-new, and you never had to change it, you have no worries. But if you, (like us sailing in salt water) have to replace it every year (because almost all the material is corroded away), your boat is subject to galvanic corrosion.
The anode is offering easy-to-get electrons, because zinc is high in the reactivity series:

If zink or magnesium is not present, the corrosion will happen in your aluminium-saildrive or in your brass-propeller. (And seacocks/thru-hulls).
I seem to remember, that many years ago, I saw an article where magnesium-anodes were recommended for sailing in brackish water or lakes.
Corrosion in lakes depends primarily on the amount of salts in the water, but also the currents through the shore-power and from other boats can cause problems. The zink-saver that Hanse nowadays mounts in the boats is connected to the earth-wire of the shorepower. The zink-saver is a condensator, picking up homeless electrons. You also have a smaller condensator in your refrigerator and other electrical equipment. The zink-saver is (maybe) also a help if a lightning strikes the shorepower. In theory it will absorp the first peak of current from the lightning, so your HPFI relay get some milliseconds to trip before all the electronics have melted down.

Back in 2006 when my boat was produced, Hanse included zink-savers for the overseas markets, but we Europeans had to buy it for ourselves.



Edited by Captain Cook - 25 January 2018 at 11:33
Freya Hanse400#27
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silversailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silversailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2018 at 01:50
Thanks Captain Cook.  I'll be sure to check my saildrive anode when I get back to my boat in April.  My recollection is that the anode looked very good last time I checked.
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
Hanse 370e, #9
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2018 at 18:16
The metal that your anode is made of should quite likely be different in fresh water than in salt water. I found this a good article....  https://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/choosing-right-sacrificial-anode

So you can see that while zinc can be effective in fresh water it will quite quickly oxidize and stop protecting whereas aluminum won't do that.

Steve
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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Ratbasher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2018 at 13:30
Of course, any seacock is only as good as its fitting. 

On buying my 400 last year the surveyor raved about the Truedesigns that the previous owner had had fitted throughout.  On launch all seemed ok with no obvious leaks but after some hours I did a further check on the lowest part of the bilges which is under the sink and not, as one might have thought, by the bilge pump; lesson No1.  This showed a nice flow of water which caused me to pretty rapidly learn all about the structure of a 400 below the sole boards as they came flying off as nothing was evident from the usual suspect sources.

After further weight-losing activity the shining of a light on the hull behind the seacock cluster in the heads showed what had previously been invisible: a thin but powerful flow of water was fanning out from the seacock bases against the hull.  Lesson No2 was that a leak may not manifest itself as you might expect.   Lesson No3 was that any leak from the Heads flows aft and fills the void space below the aft cabin sole.  This then overflows into successive void spaces along the port side before crossing to stb under the cabin table and then flowing back under the galley sink.  Lesson No4 was the realisation that by the time water reaches the bilge pump there's already a great deal of water onboard.  Of course at sea this may be detected much earlier but not alongside.

On lifting the boat the seacocks were found to be so poorly fitted that when one was tapped to remove it, it went flying out just missing the head of an unfortunate bystander below who was admiring my otherwise lovely new boat.

The final lesson was a reminder that an owner must not rely on the word of another, no matter how highly qualified, for such critical items.  If I hadn't done secondary checks later on and gone ashore, I might have been able to change the duff bulb at the top of the mast that the Surveyor had spotted using just my dinghy.  Caveat Emptor.


Rat

Hanse 400, south coast UK
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2018 at 17:30
Rat
So there was no bedding compound (Caulk) of any kind used? or were they the wrong size?

Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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Ratbasher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2018 at 18:40
They were the right size but insufficient bedding compound had been used and the seacocks were not properly tight. Its possible the previous owner hadnít realised the mistake about the bedding compound and the working of the vessel in a seaway gradually loosened the threads.

I had the seacocks professionally rebedded with locking tape applied to the threads, another Lesson Identified. At least the bilges all got a good clean....
Rat

Hanse 400, south coast UK
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