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Is 345 slow?

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 345
Forum Description: 345 Hints, Tips and News
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10208
Printed Date: 21 November 2018 at 19:06
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Is 345 slow?
Posted By: Mikki
Subject: Is 345 slow?
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 17:51
Sold a year ago 370e and looking now 2013-345 with furling mainsail + jib. In 370 I had six sails among others code 0 which made boat quick even in light winds.

Today mainly operate single handed, so the smaller more modern Hanse feels like a good idea :)

Fortunately this 345 has also genoa and code zero both on furler.

Question: Does it go anywhere with furling main + jib, sail area?

Can two additional sails make the boat at least a bit exciting?

I have been viewing also Sun Odyssey 349's - fascinating boat as 345 is more to back basics, if you know what I mean.

Comments please!
Mikki


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Mikki




Replies:
Posted By: Armin
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 09:27
Hi Mikki,
The answer will be a 'compared to what?' The 345 is designed +/- as a family cruiser ... easy to handle. And that whats she doing perfectly (and why I bought her). However I was surprised how fast the ship can go in light wind situations. I started with FTL sails. Furling jib but standard main ... but after a while I started complaining about the jib re the poor downwind performance. After a year I got a Code 0 and now it feels much better. Still surprised how often I reach 6-7 kn (close to hull max) in light wind conditions. I would say with your Code 0 and a Genua the boat is perfectly equiped. With the Code 0 up you will see me with a constant smile in my face.

But I have no idea about the impact of the furling on the main. Was never a fan of furling mains. The standard with lazy bags is for my opinion also easy to handel (even single handed).

But as said in the beginning ... it is always a 'compared to what'... I can compare the boat only with Bavarias and Sun Odyssey of the same size in Charter settings. In this competition I am more than happy with what I can realize with the boat. But she was never designed as a racer ... .

Best wishes from the front cabin ... lazy in Barcelona,
Armin

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Hanse 345#181 (MONMON) - new in April 2015 - Alicante / Spain


Posted By: Mikki
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 10:03
Hi Armin,
 
Thanks for your input, valuable information and luckily the boat I am looking at has the genoa plus code 0. I don't like the folding main either but when buying used one cannot be too picky.
 
One more negative. Boat has shallow keel 1,59 m. How much negative effect on tacking and otherwise?
 
All the best!
Mikki


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Mikki



Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 22:12
Hi Mikki,

I have a 345 with shallow keel and FCL sails, no furling main, just lazyjacks.
Main and selftacker is indeed a challenge in light winds > 6 knots. So I invested into a furling gennie ( appprox 70 m2 ).

This gives you the performance in lighter winds and downroad. The gennie is good from about 50 to 150 degrees. For tacking you need to furl the gennie in and unfurl again. Even singlehanded this is doable.
I often get the speed of the wind. Above 8 knots I prefer the self tacker close hauled.

Normally I am a tad faster than a Bav 34 close hauled. Downhill I eat a Bav for lunch with the gennie.



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Frank


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 17 April 2017 at 16:39
Furling mains are generally smaller and less efficient than a standard main. Wouldn't think one would need one on a 345  - lazyjacks are fine for the size of the regular main.

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Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: Mikki
Date Posted: 17 April 2017 at 20:35
Hi Steve,

I fully agree but because not that many used 345's are available I have to accept both furling main and shallow keel, neither one I like. Otherwise boat is fullly equipped with "everything" and the price is in line.

Fortunately genoa and code 0 are in the package.

Here I am trying to get an idea how much I am losing in performance and how well that sacrifice is compensated with two additionals sails ( I haven't purchased the boat, yet.)

How terrible would be the cost to replace the mast with ordinary one with lazy jacks etc.? New main sail costs some 4000 euros.


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Mikki



Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 17 April 2017 at 21:19
Understood. I wonder if you really have to change the mast or if there is a way to fit a track (like the StrongTrak for example). Not that you want to buy a new mainsail though I'm sure.

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Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: Mikki
Date Posted: 17 April 2017 at 21:25
That track fitting might be a good idea in other words modify the existing mast + new main sail. Genoa gives at lest 5 square meters more (vs. auto jib) which is approximately same as lost in furling main.


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Mikki



Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 18 April 2017 at 08:06
Is the mast on a furling main much heavier than a standard mast? Presumably if you use a different track system you can remove the torque rod etc to lighten the weight aloft. Would you  be able to get fore & aft  bend in the mast as with the standard mast to trim the mainsail. ( You cannot when used as a furling one I am told)


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Brufan
Date Posted: 18 April 2017 at 12:43
If you want to swap the mast for a classic one, the standing rigging won't probably be the same.  The boom must be changes/modified as well to cope with (automatic) reef lines, then the deck hardware must be extended for reffing lines.
A lot of work and spendings to be done...


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Bruno

hanse 355 - 57

S/Y Spicy Ginger

White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system (modifications done now), Simrad-Jefa autopilot.


Posted By: mopoulter
Date Posted: 27 June 2017 at 16:08
Furling mains are for light air regions INMHO. The cloth must be thin so furling is easy and reduces the chance of binding or jamming. If you go off shore in strong breeze the sail be ruined. If the sail jams and you can neither get out to drop or in you could be in a very situation.
So bad shape, light air sue only  and a potential safety issue  for the "convenience" of rolling up a main that can be dropped in to bag  I don't get it.  
Shoal draft means you can't point as well. Sounds to me that the 345 does not do what you want to do.


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mp

Hanse 370 #416

"Anxiolytic"


Posted By: Mikki
Date Posted: 27 June 2017 at 21:39
You are right. I viewed the 345 in Sweden and talked to the owner. Decided in favor of another 34' boat yr 2010. She has usual main sail 60 sq m + genoa 62 sq m. Draft 1.82 m.  Lively boat, so far quite happy Smile
 
PS: the shallow keel with furling main still unsold.


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Mikki



Posted By: Henridg
Date Posted: 21 July 2017 at 16:08
Hi everybody,
i'm just back from my first trip with my new H345 : more than 600 NM around Corsica.
I thougth that the boat would be slow, and i added a genoa to replace the self tacking (FCL sails)
I have been surprised by the speed even in low winds. I think that this boat is interesting (although evidently not a racer !) with standard main, self tacking and genaker. The genoa is a compromise because you may use it as self tacking when furling a few turns, but it does not add much speed.
I would not recommand the furling main, because you lose about 5 square meters, and above all the form of the sail is not good at all (i tried a H345 with furling main and decided noyt to buy one).
I have the shallow keel. The cape is 45 to 50 degrees from the Wind (with the genoa, probably better with the self tacking), but there is almost no drift, except when you have a crossing current.




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Tinh Tam
H345 #279


Posted By: rubin
Date Posted: 23 February 2018 at 13:25
Hi everybody,
I sell Jib medium, with oriented wires, like new 105% 31.5 square meters, roller blind with vertical slats, very performing, both with light and strong wind.


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http://album.foto.virgilio.it/rubin_bottiglieri


Posted By: richz
Date Posted: 03 November 2018 at 16:09
https://youtu.be/Tvx7eYyaTM4" rel="nofollow - A visual contribution to this thread



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Kale Kale - H345 #112



Posted By: mopoulter
Date Posted: 06 November 2018 at 15:31
It would be faster if you put more tension on jib and main halyards. Wink

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mp

Hanse 370 #416

"Anxiolytic"


Posted By: richz
Date Posted: 06 November 2018 at 21:04
Fully agree with you.
As per the mainsail halyard I replaced the spinlock cam last week as said in another thread and now I should have fixed that issue.
As per the jib, it becomes absurdly tough to furl and unfurl it when I tension the halyard too hard.
I should investigate that issue, I know. Perhaps there is something wrong with the top swivel.


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Kale Kale - H345 #112



Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 06 November 2018 at 21:49
Originally posted by richz richz wrote:

Fully agree with you.
As per the mainsail halyard I replaced the spinlock cam last week as said in another thread and now I should have fixed that issue.
As per the jib, it becomes absurdly tough to furl and unfurl it when I tension the halyard too hard.
I should investigate that issue, I know. Perhaps there is something wrong with the top swivel.

If it helps, there is nothing to stop you easing the halyard before you furl it if you find that easier. Friction in the jib sheet could be an issue worth checking.
From your picture you are very likely to pull the bolt rope out of the bottom part of the foil. If you are not careful the foot is so slack it is being dragged aft by the jib sheet & is pulling the bolt rope aft. It may be that you also have the clew fitted on the wrong hole thus pulling the foot more than the leech.
The jib can be hard to furl if there is a lot of slack in the rig allowing the forestay to sag off . This allows the foil to bend so it does not rotate so easily.  You are probably aware that having a tight rig is essential on a Hanse. A slight pre bend in the mast may also help the baggy mainsail shape.


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 07 November 2018 at 02:43
Ditch the 2:1 arrangement for jib sheet and go 1:1 just tie or use soft shackle to attach jib sheet to you jib, it will be much easier to furl due to reduced friction.

A jib this small does not need 2:1 like 50' or larger does.


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Stephen
2010 H400, Auckland, New Zealand


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 07 November 2018 at 04:05
I agree with Stavros.  I too had a problem furling my jib in. I needed the winch.
I ditched the 2:1 sheet solution and replaced the 12 mm sheet by a 10 mm dyneema with a spliced eye. 
Both actions allowed that I can now do the infurling by hand, easing the backstay makes this even more easier, so my wife could do it. I am also using a dyneema shackle.

Still to do is replacing the cam ( thanks for the tips here in the forum ), into a 6-10 mm. For now I leave the jib sheet on the winch to prevent slipping.


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Frank


Posted By: richz
Date Posted: 07 November 2018 at 22:44
Thank you all for the tips.

Frank, any advice on the dyneema rope?


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Kale Kale - H345 #112



Posted By: richz
Date Posted: 07 November 2018 at 22:45
BTW I replaced the cam for the main halyard and it was an easy job, thanks for the advice taken from this forum.

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Kale Kale - H345 #112



Posted By: mopoulter
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 16:28
Originally posted by richz richz wrote:

Thank you all for the tips.

Frank, any advice on the dyneema rope?
I am not Frank but here is my opinion
 
I replaced most my lines with dyneema, light, strong, easy on hands. Only exception was main sheet where I want a bit of stretch if it gets "puffy".
Expensive though, although I found a local shop that sells wholesale at Toronto Boat show.  


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mp

Hanse 370 #416

"Anxiolytic"


Posted By: richz
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 20:59
Hi mp, i am indeed thinking of replacing some of my lines with dyneema, but there are a lot of different producers and kinds that I got lost.
Any advice? Thanks

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Kale Kale - H345 #112



Posted By: Brickbat
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 21:36
I have put in my first season with a new 348. I have been sailing with a furling main and the self tacking jib and find it anything but slow. The performance data published by Hanse has proved out to be pretty much right on target. Although we don't race, it is faster than other comparable sized monohulls we sail with. 
Although my wife and I bought it for the self-tacking design to extend our sailing a few years,the performance has been a surprise. It also tracks very well in our choppy Great Lakes, which we were originally worried about.



Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 09 November 2018 at 00:25
Brickbat makes a good point about how well these boats track in heavy weather, and how light the helm remains.  The benefits of the self-tacker may be very apparent but those seeking a boat that can be sailed single-handed or with a less experienced crew will also gain from these attributes.  I have never had Ningaloo round up in gusts, and crew that have sailed on my previous boat comment on the difference.
Any drawbacks of the self-tacker in light winds or off-wind conditions can be rectified with an asymmetric or similar.   I managed my asymmetric single handed across Lyme Bay on one memorable early morning passage this year. 
Although I tend to use 6kts as a realistic average speed for passage planning, I have just looked over my log for the year and can see that I have achieved an average of 7kts or more on some 100NM+ passages with the right conditions.  


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H385 #351 Ningaloo UK south coast (2018)


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 09 November 2018 at 08:27
A point made by Panos some years ago when owners suggesting doing away with the 2:1 jib sheet to the ST is that it puts greater load on the mast sheave, the deck block & organiser etc. On larger boats it may be worth upgrading the deck block at the mast base at the same time to avoid failure in the future.
If one thinks about it the theoretical load  increase is double, (in practice probably less) which is a big increase


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 09 November 2018 at 13:34
Hi Rich, I used a 10 mm braided silver/blue one.
I saw this when I visited a boat shop on one of my trips and they had this one on sale as the manufacturer ( Liros or Gleistein ) had discontinued this color.  They had just the right 20 meter+ left over in stock at a 50% discounted priceSmile, so I went for it. Have never regretted the decision.

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Frank



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