Print Page | Close Window

Dreaming of sailing with a new Hanse

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Chit Chat
Forum Description: Talk about anything to do with your boat
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10892
Printed Date: 21 September 2018 at 03:56
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Dreaming of sailing with a new Hanse
Posted By: mglonnro
Subject: Dreaming of sailing with a new Hanse
Date Posted: 11 July 2018 at 10:48

Apparently I got bitten by the sailing bug again, and after briefly having to live without a boat I've lately been spending A LOT of my free time window shopping for a new one as well as diligently reading myHanse to get some understanding about what Hanse owners think about their yachts. Smile

A few unresolved thoughts: 

- A good dealer is key to a good buying experience, which seems quite intuitive. I've contacted the dealer here in my country of residence (Finland) a few times, but haven't yet received any of info that I requested. Is it possible to make the deal with another dealer within the EU? I guess it should be in the spirit of free movement of goods/services within the union, but I suspect that in practice it isn't due to close cooperation with local yards (or actually being both dealer and yard)?

- I see a lot of posts concerning snag lists, poor build quality etc from ten years ago. What is the current situation? What should I expect in terms of problem fixing after the yacht is delivered? I assume everything is better now Big smile

- We're a family of 2 + 4 children and want to cruise in the Finnish archipelago as well as maybe take the odd trip further to Gotland etc. Maximising cabin space and minimising draft we're looking at 348, 388 or 418. As my previous boat was an IMX-38 (which was a joy to sail!) it would be really nice to have a boat that at least theoretically has roughly the same performance, and this narrows it down to 388 and 418. They both look beautiful, have only a small difference in draft, and I am having a hard time figuring out whether the actual difference in performance and space is large enough to justify the increase in price and maintenance costs.

- We're big fans of the light "scandinavian" (IKEA? Big smile) interiors. It's a very fresh move away from the "dark cave" look of more seasoned yachts. Still, in the second hand market most Hanses come with the classic mahogany furniture and floorboard. I wonder why? 

- Lastly: we're not buying this boat for a lifetime, but rather as a few years project until we're ready for the next one. With this in mind, it would be good to select options that won't affect the value of the yacht terribly negatively when we eventually want to sell it a few years down the road. Any help relating to this is much appreciated Smile. I think we won't change our minds about the mahogany furniture, but what about teak/synthetic teak/no teak at all? Anything else?


Thanks for your comments and here's to hoping that next summer we'll be able to contribute to this forum as actual owners in addition to being the dreamers we already are Beer

Cheers,

Mikael Lönnroth




Replies:
Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 11 July 2018 at 21:00
If you sailed x-yachts IMX38 and now want a short keel version I think you will get very disappointed with sailing performance but enjoy the high living comfort.

I had x-79 and changed to Hanse311 and now got a Hanse370.
Even with the 1979 design x-79 jib/genua tracks were spot on. Have never heard about an x-yacht that had to move it's tracks. This forum is full of these stories. Long story short a similiar sized x-yachts (mayby except xc-line) will outperform any hanse yacht.
Dehler is more like x-yacht.

Btw. There are a lot of Hanse 370 out there with bright color interior.
Like this one 3 cabin that has already improved jib tracks :-)
https://scanboat.com/en/boat-market/boats/Sejlbaad-hanse-370-e-17276480" rel="nofollow - https://scanboat.com/en/boat-market/boats/Sejlbaad-hanse-370-e-17276480
Going secondhand you will see that the previous owner has fixed a lot of issues. (One item of caution is the yanmar SD50 saildrive, I desided to avoid )

/H8jer


-------------
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 11 July 2018 at 22:10
Thanks for your comments!

And no, not the short keel version, the normal one. IMX-38 draft was 2,11m and although not that short, it wasn't too much of a problem in the archipelago. Hanse 388 normal keel is 2,06m, so that should be ok.

Before the IMX I actually had a Dehler 34, and that was fun too Big smile

Thanks so much for the link! I found a few other nice boats there as well! Are there any other sites you can recommend for used yachts within the EU? I've located yachworld.com, theyachtmarket.com, blocket.se in Sweden and nettivene.com in Finland.

And thank you for the other comments as well. Going second hand would mean we might be out sailing already this year, which would be a definite bonus!

/Mikael


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 12 July 2018 at 05:04
Holland got http://www.botentekoop.nl" rel="nofollow - http://www.botentekoop.nl

Germany Used Charter:
http://www.yachthandel-mola.de/Yachthandel-Gebrauchtyachten.php" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachthandel-mola.de/Yachthandel-Gebrauchtyachten.php

/h8jer



-------------
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 12 July 2018 at 09:08
Thank you, h8jer!

Found a couple of really interesting 415s. 


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 26 July 2018 at 19:44
I received the first offer for a new 388 a couple of days ago. Below is the list of options I specified. Appreciate any feedback on whether something important is left out or something ridiculous included Smile

Intended use: summer sailing in the Finnish archipelago with the occasional trips further within the Baltic Sea: Estonia, Åland, Gotland, mainland Sweden, Denmark ... Two adults and four children would live aboard for a few weeks at a time. Day sailing outside of the vacation season. 

Quote XW2000 B&G Navigation Package (early-bird)
XW3000 Cruising Package (early-bird)
XW4000 Performance Package (early-bird)
XW3002 Upgrade - Stainless steel anchor with chain
XW4001 Upgrade - Secondary Winches
XW4100 Gennaker Package
XW5000 Comfort Package
XW7000 Entertainment Package
XL2002 B2: Saloon with short L-galley, dining area on stb and sofa on port - separate head with shower stall on port (only with XL3002)
XL3002 C2: 2 aft cabins with double berth and storage space (only with XL2002)
XL7200 Chart table lowerable and seat in saloon convertible into double berth
XL7601 Worktop in galley - Seashell White
XM1101 Furniture - Canadian Chestnut
XM1161 Cupboard fronts coloured (partial as per design - colour selection)
XN2002 Upholstery - Valencia (colour selection) 
XN2500 Cockpit cushions (colour selection)
XC1333 Teak on helmsman seats (only with XC9060)
XC1350 Teak on bathing platform (only with XC6001 or XC6002)
XC4001 Gateway stanchion
XC6001 Bathing platform, manual fold-out with swimming ladder (only with XC1350 or XC1351)
XC9060 2 helmsman seats, foldable (only with XC1333 or XC1334)
XC9161 Anchor and forestay fitting with double mooring roll incl. gennaker/crossover eye
XE2001 Lazy bag with lazy jacks (colour selection - not with XE1001)
XE2012 Sprayhood with stainless steel stake, 3 windows (1 openable - colour selection)
XF4500 B&G 4G Broadband Radar (only with XF4000, XF4010 or XF4011)
XF4600 B&G AIS Class B transponder (only with XF4000, XF4010 or XF4011)
XG1001 Engine (Diesel, approx. 29 hp) - saildrive, 2-blade folding propeller
XG3101 Bowthruster, 12 V, retractable, incl. battery
XH2201 Inverter/charger, 12 V / 1600 W - 60 A, incl. AC panel (only with XH1001)
XH4011 Heating, hot air with blowers in saloon and master cabin (not with XH4511 and XH4514)
XH4022 Outlet for heating in aft cabins (only with XH4011 and XL3002)
XC3001 Cockpit table, stainless steel with folding teak tops 
XV9120 Cockpit table cover (colour selection)
XV9130 Cover for steering wheels (colour selection)



Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 26 July 2018 at 22:29
That's a long list$$LOL

If U are going to Denmark a Fenderlist might save the hull from some scratches for pole-harbouring.
Also a ForwardScan transducer showing depth for the Zeus3 would be hard to retrofit.

For higher resale value I would AVOID Teakdeak and
Coloured hull.
/H8jer



-------------
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 06:28
Originally posted by H8jer H8jer wrote:

That's a long list$$LOL

Yes. Sigh. Confused

Quote
If U are going to Denmark a Fenderlist might save the hull from some scratches for pole-harbouring.

Yes, we have those here in Finland also. 

Quote Also a ForwardScan transducer showing depth for the Zeus3 would be hard to retrofit.


Thumbs Up

Quote For higher resale value I would AVOID Teakdeak and
Coloured hull.


Yes, thought the same. 

The bow thruster is a small question mark. I have never had one but I am all for technology that makes manoeuvring easier (I think the trend away from sailing yachts towards motor yachts is something that needs to be reversed Big smile). What I do worry about, though, is the door. A few threads here mention the door falling off as well as not closing tightly. Is this something that has been resolved in newer versions/installations? 

I do think a bow thruster is a plus in resale value, but don't know. 

Thanks again for your comments!


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 08:25
When sailing x-yacht I thought bowthrusters were for beginners.
BUT then I got a Hanse with extreme high hull sides...
We are so glad for the thruster. Many harbours in Scandinavia are very narrow and in holidays very crowded.
You don't want do be without it.

Selling a Hanse without bowthruster would be harder because the buyer will press the price down.
Once saw a secundhand Hanse offered with two prices with/without thruster installed by the owner. The difference was 15.000 euro.
Retofitting anything in a Hanse is very hard because of it is built with hull, inner-shell and deck joined AFTER they got outfitted with plumming, wireing etc.

I have a 2008 max compact retracteble and has only had a temp sensor problem, due to design error. Factory recommanded to cut a wire :-) and now it works fine.



-------------
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 09:17
The list looks ok for me:
 
Do NOT order the lazybag and sprayhood from Hanse, they supply a inferior quality. I would get them made locally in Turku with high quality sunbrella.

I would add three things for a better resale value, which are very hard to retrofit:

a) 2 electric winches
b) retractable bow thruster
c) Teak rub rail


The 4th idea:

Think about having your dealer adding a bow sprit platform from Batsystems Sweden with integrated bow ladder. Otherwise you will not be be able to moor bow to, as is usual in Scandinavia.




-------------
Frank


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 16:06
Thank you again, H8jer and Fendant for your valuable comments Thumbs Up

The bow platform + ladder thing is interesting. There is a 388 here in Helsinki in a couple of weeks so I will go and see how they have solved this. 


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 16:24
(Electrical winches upgrade 4500 eur + VAT. Good grief LOL)


Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 20:33
On a 385/388, a 10 year old can hoist the main, no need for electric winches there...


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 21:56
Originally posted by Ist Ist wrote:

On a 385/388, a 10 year old can hoist the main, no need for electric winches there...
Big smile

Luckily the eldest will be 10 years next summer so we can count on getting the main up without electricity (which is much more needed for iPads and other stuff, obviously Pinch)


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 23:23
Hmmm, I don't think a 10 year old could hoist my FCL main. Few of my female crew can manage the last few turns on the winch.
Our technique is to use autopilot in wind mode (0 degrees) then have one person sweating the halyard at the mast while the other takes up the slack at the winch.
When single handed, I can only get the sail 3/4 up before using the winch.
With the Selden MDS batten cars there is very little friction in the mast track (not sure STRONG sail track would improve things much) and the sail drops completely in a couple of seconds so I think the effort in hoisting is simply the weight of the sail (FCL seems much heavier than Dacron) and the friction on the mast sheaves.

-------------
H385 #351 Ningaloo UK south coast (2018)


Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 00:09
True. It needs a bit of winching the last part....but still not very hard. We actually have plastic sliders, only carts at the battens, and still quite easy. We spray them with a bit of Teflon a few times a season.
It may be worth concidering upgrading the standard 40 winches to 45s. Much easier handling of all lines.


Posted By: silversailor
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 02:17
You can solve the mainsail raising/lowering problems with a Strong Tack system.  Much less expensive than an electric winch.  Don't know if any packages include a feathering prop.  They are an excellent addition.  Last, did you consider the larger engine?


-------------
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
Hanse 370e, #9


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 07:30
Originally posted by silversailor silversailor wrote:

You can solve the mainsail raising/lowering problems with a Strong Tack system.  Much less expensive than an electric winch.  Don't know if any packages include a feathering prop.  They are an excellent addition.  Last, did you consider the larger engine?

Cool, thank you. I assume this is the Strong Track system? http://ultrafurl.com/products/strong-sail-track/" rel="nofollow - http://ultrafurl.com/products/strong-sail-track/

No package includes a feathering prop and I have never had one on any boat, so I guess I don't know what I am missing Smile. This was an interesting read: https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/folding-and-feathering-propeller-test-29807" rel="nofollow - https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/folding-and-feathering-propeller-test-29807 . What brand is the standard folding prop that comes with a new Hanse?  

I didn't really consider the larger engine either. On the second hand market I see that roughly 1/5 of the Hanse 385s have the larger engine, but I don't know? In an ideal world I would want the Oceanvolt electrical engine (or Torqeedo for that matter, if there is any design that would work with a 388) and a generator. 




Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 07:35
Originally posted by Ist Ist wrote:

True. It needs a bit of winching the last part....but still not very hard. We actually have plastic sliders, only carts at the battens, and still quite easy. We spray them with a bit of Teflon a few times a season.
It may be worth concidering upgrading the standard 40 winches to 45s. Much easier handling of all lines.

My previous boat had Harken 44 halyard winches for a smaller main sail, so maybe the 40 -> 45 upgrade would be smart. Shouldn't be that expensive either, I guess. 


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 07:57
I wasn't suggesting that the main halyard requires electric or larger winches, although clearly either will make it easier (but electric is very slow and consumes significsnt battery amps). My comment was countering the suggestion that it could be done by a 10 year old.
Very happy with the 30hp Volvo and personally would not consider a larger engine necessary.
Hanse seem to swap propeller suppliers quite a bit. Mine has a Gori 2 blade folding prop, but it took a while to work that out when trying to source a replacement anode for it.
The one additional I wish I had specified are the teak rubrails. I wasn't familiar with Baltic "boxes" (and didn't intend spending 3 years there either!) So didn't have these and ended up using ugly Liros Bumperline rope fenders for my time there.

-------------
H385 #351 Ningaloo UK south coast (2018)


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 08:39
The rub rails thing is interesting as well. 

I have been sailing in the Baltics for twenty or so years and haven't had rub rails on any boat (beam 3,4-3,7m). It was also one of the options the dealer sounded a bit hesitant to include (they charter Hanses in the Nordics and I don't see any rub rails on the charter boats either). 

Further: looking at the used yacht market in Sweden and Finland almost no production boats (X-Yachts included) have them. On the other hand, H-Rs, Najads and Sweden Yachts more often do. 

Then there is the hull colour and vinyl wrapping issue. I assume vinyl wrapping is equally possible with rub rails, though it might be a bit more difficult?

Obviously, going in between two tightly fitting wooden posts will potentially hurt the boat, so some protection is dearly needed. I'm just wondering why so few boats in the Nordic markets actually have the fixed rub rails. Is it just an aesthetic issue?



Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 09:11
No problem with foiling a hull with rub rail. In fact it is easier to spilt the surface to be foiled in two.
In fact you don't need rub rails in Southern Europe as they are mostly mooring stern to, also no need for a bow ladder there.

Bear in mind that the Hanse 388 will be a boat an elderly couple will consider to buy. I have battened cars and can easily hoist the main until the last 1 - 1.5 m. My wife can not fully hoist the main with the standard 40 size winches. So you have a choice between 40 size winches electric and 42 size manual.
Electric also facilitates the reefing process.
Power consumption is not that big, when you hoist the sail you are mostly running the engine .

Concerning the bat system consider to purchase it before and have it send to the Hanse yard. It will be much easier to fit it during the build process before the "wedding" of hull and deck. The reason is that the anchor locker is in the deck mold and you don't have an easy access to the outer hull for a solid mounting.

I would always go for the bigger engine, it runs at lower revs for your normal marching speed. Think about a solid 12/220 V inverter with galley outlets factory installed as well



-------------
Frank


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 10:33
Thank you again, Fendant, for your thoughtful comments. I will discuss this with the dealer and see where we end up. 

Regarding the rub rails: are there any conceivable downsides to them? Aside from the cosmetics, only thing I can think of is that it's teak that needs some caring for and inevitably will degrade over time. 

Admiral Johan Hackman seems to have them on his Hanse Smile



Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 10:41
With fenderlist I meant rub rail.
90% boats in Denmark have rub rails. The other 10% wish they had.
Wooden poles can come in raw shapes.
Infact hull-side windows could be an issue
My hanse 370 has a small stainless steel rub rail about 8mm thick and 15mm height.

Folding prop is a must-have!


-------------
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 11:37
The performance package is quite a good deal, especially with the early bird offerings. It will cost more later to upgrade sails and associated hardware. The performance package includes MDS sliders for the main. These are small “cars” that roll inside the track on the mast, fits well with Selden, and provides the same benefits as Strongtack system.
We had MDS cars on our previous Dacron sails. It really makes raising and dropping the main very easy.

Retrofitting the sliders is very easy, but is possibly mostly a question of how the sails are sewn. I.e the spacing between the fasteners in the luff. If delivered with performance package/FCL sails, this will be accounted for. The MDS sliders build vertically about 1.5/2 times as much as plastic sliders so you can’t stack as many as you would with the nylon sliders. Our current laminate mainsail has the MDS cars at the battens, but on the other hand, the sliders are spaced much more densely. As such there is much less potential for the sliders to get twisted and stuck. Possibly this helps make it easy to raise the main.

Also consider Dyneema halyards so the forces are transmitted directly and doesn’t get wasted into rope stretch. The standard mast turning blocks are undersized, but can easily be switched later for larger and lower friction blocks.
Same goes for mainsheet blocks on the boom (ours had 70 size blocks which is to small, should
be 84)

Winches: size upgrade is most important, the standard 40 is undersized. Whether electric or not, upgrade the size. As these winches will be used for practically all line handling, including mainsheet, reef and all trims, it really makes it easier and more flexible with larger sized winches. And even if electric winches, they will probably not be used in electric mode for the smaller trim adjustments, but a bigger size is helpful regardless.

Other headsails: I think this is an important upgrade, tremendously improves speed at lower winds. Genakker and/or code zero/reacher. The Scandinavian archipelago summertime has these high pressure systems with low winds and we find ourselves using these sails more often than not, and consequently, hardly ever use the engine.
Headsail upgrade requires some hardware. The standard mast will need a halyard fitting on top, at least 30cm above the jib/spinnaker halyard, and you will need turning blocks aft at the cockpit. A code zero will also require some reinforcement of the bow spirit/anchor system (unless this is now done differently). I believe the “reacher” upgrade package includes all of this. The headsails are most easily handled on furlers/torsion wires. This allows for single handling from cockpit and no need to step on deck. If you want both genakker and code zero, consider a furling system that allows use of the same drum.

Secondary winches: necesarry if you have other headsails than the self tacker. Don’t know about the difficulty in retrofitting these on a 388, but would be surprised if it is a problem. On all its models, Hanse has aluminium reinforcements embedded at the correct locations to fasten deck equipment. The new build winch upgrade prices seem very competetively priced.

We have done much performance upgrades and it has completely transformed the sailing experience. This is a fast hull, and with a few upgrades to deck ware, sails, and rig details, you can really enjoy that potential.

Engine/bow truster. Standard is good enough. Definitely folding prop (for sailing performance) I don’t think a bow truster is needed. The deep rudder provides excellent control of the aft, and its 37 feet are short enough to allow for control of the bow. A few basic springing techniques is all you need. But if she was any larger, I would probably have preferred a bow truster.

Rub rail: surely helpful if you sail in areas with “poles” at the docks., I. E Denmark, Baltics, Netherlands? Otherwise not necessary.

General quality: No obvious issues on our 2014 model, in fact, I am positively surprised. The critical issues, Hull, deck, mast, rudder are very robustly made. No use of inner liners, weak keel joints or other structural issues that can give serious problems. The GRP grid and keel/hull joints are iserious stuff.

All systems are serviceable (except perhaps the black water tank) and they seem to be using pretty decent quality systems, I.e water pumps, heaters, etc. electrics are really nicely done.

Interior furniture layout is cleverly/practically designed, its build quality is obviously not very exclusive, but does the job nicely. The light colored alpi oak style is attractive for a Scandinavian, but not sure about its sustainability/quality over time. Regardless, I think you will quickly appreciate whatever color interior there is. There is much light/windows, even more on the 388, and that’s more important. There is more than enough storage below deck for family cruising.

Size: 388/418? Beyond the obvious benefits of a bigger boat, and the associated costs. The 388 seems a little short on cockpit storage compared to the 385. I.e the life raft and gas compartments are gone. For family cruising, we very certainly appreciate the cockpit storage on the 385, if this is better on a 418, possibly worthwhile a size upgrade.


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 14:47
Thank you, Ist, for taking the time to comment!

Performance package, yes, it comes at a 100% discount, so a no-brainer Smile. It includes the Selden MDS as well as the dyneema halyards.

Winch upgrade Thumbs Up Secondary winches also included as factory options. The Lewmar winch selection guide suggest the 45 version for 93 m2 spinnaker sheets (don't really know what the difference in load is when using gennaker or crossover), so I gather both primary and secondary winches should be 45. 

Regarding headsails, I have included the gennaker package, which includes the actual sail, a squeezer and the deck equipment, as well as the anchor/forestay package with gennaker/crossover eye. I'd love to have the crossover/code zero as well, but that's another 5400 eur (incl VAT), so if I have to choose (I do Big smile), I think the gennaker will be more useful. In Finland, though, it feels like the destination is always dead ahead upwind no matter where you're going, but that's another story Smile

Rub rails Thumbs Up (but have to sleep on it!)

Good to hear your positive comments about the quality!

The options and other stuff have so far added about 46% to the base price, so more and more I'm settling on 388 being the better choice.


Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 16:24
These boats really need larger headsails to make them perform to their potential under a variety of conditions. I hope that the innovations seen on the new larger boats, i.e 508, with permanently rigged double headsail, will trickle down to the smaller boats sooner rather than later. 

I find that the high aspect rig with Jib (106) and large main is great when above 6-7ms (14kn) and obviously upwind. With laminate sails we can hold full sails until about 10ms (20kn). With the dacrons, we reefed at 8ms.

And, after getting a taste of the larger headsails for downwind and light wind conditions, there is no going back. It yields much higher average speeds.

The key with those sails is ease of use, both hosting and reefing, especially the latter. If not easy and safe, singlehanded, I wouldn't have used them as much. 

Think "switch gears". Having them on a furler allows us to quickly change between jib and large headsail, depending upon angles and wind strength. We deploy them much easier knowing that we can get them down quickly and easily, from cockpit, should things get hairy.

The Hanse prices on those sails and rig details seems a bit over the top (in contrast to their other packages). Also, their description of what exactly is delivered is not very informative.

This can easily be retrofitted, and probably cheaper also. Any rig shop can do this in an hour, and probably DYI also. Being in Finland, your access to Selden parts shouldn't be a problem.

For genakker: These are relatively forgiving sails, i.e loosely fitted, nylon cloth,  and dont need to be cut to the millimeter by Elvstroem to do the job well. You can get a "standard" genakker sown in Asia for about 1000 euros. We have a 105 sqm with 15.5m luff. More than the 93sqm offered by H, but or experience is that the H385 is stiff enough to handle this. It handles our 105sqm genakker well and safely to about 6ms wind at 90 degrees (small waves). We have held it at gusts to 8ms, about 90 degrees TWA, and thats quite exhilarating and is where you see 9+ knots SOG, and fingers crossed, still haven't broached...On deeper angles can probably hold the genakker more easily at those winds. 

The code zero: Needs to be fitted more exactly, probably a variety of cloth. Ours is pretty stiff, DP cloth 2.5oz, 60sqm. It acts more or less like a large i.e 150% Genoa. Will probably add UV protection to have it more or less permanently rigged.

Furlers: We use Harken furlex as it allows for easy switch between code zero and genakker, while using the same furling drum and endless loop. Didn't quite figure out whether the others had this flexibility at the time when we installed it. Probably other good options also, but so far, very pleased and have had no problems in getting the sails furled even when things are getting a little pressed.

As you can tell, quite interested in the sailing performance...and find the Hanses quite rewarding in that respect and a good notch above other production cruisers. For the next boat project, a few years from now, the conundrum will probably be between a proper performance cruiser, or choose a much larger Hanse at the same price...










Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 16:47
A few pictures of mast head fittings and sails




Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 17:41
Cool, and I appreciate the value you put on performance! I, too, value the sailing part of sailing. Actually I love the sea even more, but sailing is the nicest way to get there :)

How about the downwind angles with the crossover and the gennaker? When do they stop being useful? 

I will look into acquiring the sails separately. Having a code zero/crossover ready on a furler is starting to feel like a tempting idea.


Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 18:15
Our code zero works best btw 40-140ish TWA. The 106 jib releases at 150TWA pretty exactly, even with full twist. Not very effective after 140. Our genny, probably similar to A1 type, about 80-140, a bit lower under stable conditions. 

Getting the deeper angles, beyond 140ish, on assymetric, is more art than science I think, and in stable conditions, it possibly to get it to fly well ahead of the boat with much eased sheet. The luff will also turn much forward and over to the opposite side. Great feeling, but quite a balancing act. If there is little waves, the autopilot holds her perfectly balanced, hardy moves the wheel at all. 

The difficulty is holding the pressure in the sail while being that much eased. With waves, and shifting winds, the balancing act gets much more difficult.

And all of this is with main fully hoisted, as it provides for a more balanced ride. The jib and code zero would probably fly deeper down without the main.



Posted By: Ist
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 18:30
Some pictures from when passing from Skagen, Denmark to Marstrand, Sweden, on a really quiet day. Winds btw 2-3ms, and about halfway, turned up a bit, to btw 3-4ms, and moved forward to about 95-100 degrees TWA to where we where heading. The last half of the trip we averaged about 7.5 knots under such conditions. First half with 2/3ms at 110/120, probably held below 5kn, just enough to not turn on the engine.

When the genny is sheeted this tight, it blows back on the main a bit, as you can see here, the luff of the main is not very effective. The wrinkles in the front of the main are from the "blowback". Further aft towards the leach, the main had good pressure (although all those shiny technora fibers seem to confuse the camera a bit).

These speeds are much beyond the polar charts, probably because our genakker is larger than what they have modeled in the VPP. If we didn't also have the smaller code zero, that is a little more versatile, and should select only one sail, I would have chosen a smaller genny.  105sqm is fine until 6ms/12kn wind at these angles, and as you can see here, it works wonderfully at 3/4ms 6/8kn 95TWA. Stability is not a concern, at such low winds, even with this large sail on H385 (doubles the standard sail area).




Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 20:19
These pictures are frustratingly inviting! It's wonderful weather here in Finland at the moment and I want out sailing right now! LOL

... but I don't have a boat Angry.


Posted By: mglonnro
Date Posted: 07 August 2018 at 17:43
I started a blog about us!

Everything will turn out ok :)

https://nakedsailor.blog" rel="nofollow - https://nakedsailor.blog


-------------
The Naked Sailor
https://nakedsailor.blog" rel="nofollow - https://nakedsailor.blog



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk