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Our Experience with Hanse Yachts

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Topic: Our Experience with Hanse Yachts
Posted By: svrocinante
Subject: Our Experience with Hanse Yachts
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 15:20

Well it’s been 6+ months and around 3000 miles since we left Annapolis, MD aboard our new Hanse 400e… time for a report! 

As most of you know, this trip actually started from Harwich Port, MA in our 1981 Catalina 30.  We loved our old gal, she just didn’t have the room we needed to cruise full time nor the speed we wanted to cover the miles we wanted to cover in a given day, so having reached Annapolis, we started shopping for a larger, faster vessel and finally settled on a Hanse 400e which we purchased from Annapolis Sail Yard, Inc.

I wish I could sit here and tell you how much we love our Hanse… but unfortunately, I can’t… from the day we took delivery, we’ve been plagued with problems… some small, some large, some annoying, and some downright dangerous.

But before I get into this, it’s only right to tell you about some great folks that did an amazing job and delivered not only what was promised, but delivered on time!
In no particular order:

http://www.YachtInteriorsofAnnapolis.com - www.YachtInteriorsofAnnapolis.com
Christine Roney; Yacht Interiors of Annapolis did an amazing job fabricating all of our interior cushions, a custom mattress with fitted sheets, installing window treatments, etc.
 
http://www.AccentGraphics.com - www.AccentGraphics.com
The folks from Accent Graphics, Inc. did a great job on our boat lettering including a super quick turn-around on a last minute decision on hailing port.

Don of Canvas Creations, Inc. outdid himself in delivering in record time, during the post boat show busy season, our custom dodger & bimini once again, including a last minute change when he came back to find we had installed our wind generator right where his bimini was going ;-)

Now back to our regularly scheduled program!
This is a quote straight from the Hanse Yachts website http://www.hanseyachts.com - www.hanseyachts.com
“…Hanse puts Customer Service first and fills the term After Sales with a new meaning.”

I’ll say!

After being convinced by the folks at Annapolis Sail Yard, Inc. that I was buying a quality boat with a sterling reputation and great German engineering, I was amazed not only at the number of problems we’ve encountered, but especially at how poorly Hanse has responded to them.
 
I started questioning my decision soon after taking possession.
The first thing we noticed was a bit of water under the cushions in the rear berth… at first, they dismissed it as condensation… not thrilled with that idea, but OK… fortunately, it rained and I was able to find a trickle of water running down the inside of the hull… so much for condensation.  They busied themselves re-bedding screws in the toerail… nope, not it… how about this portlight, nope not it… and so on… bottom line, we left Annapolis almost a month late and still had the leak!

During the test sail, the Sail Yard, Inc. salesman was rolling in the headsail with quite a bit of effort, I asked what the problem was and was told “it probably has too much line on the drum, we’ll take care of it”… well, I finally took off some of the “excess” line myself… guess what, the headsail is still ridiculously hard to furl… I actually have to use a winch and yes, we’re talking turned dead into the wind!  One response we’ve gotten is that the problem is all the friction being generated by the self-tacking jib system… but to date, no indication of how they intend to fix the problem

Next came a comedy routine straight out of Abbot & Costello as I tested the various electronic circuits with me yelling down to my wife “turn on the anchor light”… “No, that’s the masthead light!”  we went back and forth quite a few times before I went down below convinced “she” was doing something wrong, because there is no way in hell that Hanse made such a mistake and then to top it all off didn’t catch it… wrong!
My friend George went up the mast and found it had been wired incorrectly!

The Simrad wind instruments didn’t work after several days with no solid solution in place, I went to West Marine, purchased all new Raymarine instruments and had George install them… worked perfectly!

Several drawer latches were replaced because they would stick shut, the cabin sole in the forward stateroom squeaked loudly and after several attempts to fix it, still does… current position; there’s nothing more they can do… really!

We headed south… more portlights started to leak, they have since had to remove and re-bed every single portlight on our boat… what ever happened to doing it right in the first place!

By the time we hit Charleston, the refrigerator was no longer maintaining a proper temperature… it would cycle constantly and hover around 48 degrees F… it now stays around 52… The response from Hanse? “It’s working fine”… sorry, my rotting meat begs to differ!

The most interesting part of this is the obvious design flaw… they placed the air-cooled compressor in a small cubby with no air circulation and get this, it’s underneath the refrigerator… so the heat from the unit heats up the very box it’s trying to cool down!
Not exactly the German Engineering I’m familiar with!

But wait, it gets better… one day, my wife picks up the top access fridge cover and the entire thing comes crashing down on the countertop… the undersized screws obviously didn’t provide enough of a grip and the adhesive they had used to compensate, had failed… we now have two chips in the countertop that they say they can’t fix without making it look worse and a cabinet door with dents in it from where the fridge cover bounced up and dinged it… which once again they say can’t be fixed… gee, thanks!

Lets talk about safety… picture this:
We're out in 15-20 kts and 4-6 ft. seas...  I'm working my way back from the foredeck after freeing up the roller furler that jams just often enough... our Hanse is pitching like crazy and I'm grabbing on to the lifeline just forward of the cockpit when she pitches again and instead of a nice secure hold, I pitch up myself, hanging on to a stanchion that's broken loose!
 
A subsequent inspection of the other stanchions shows that 4 out of the 14 bolts holding them down are missing!
Let me do the math for you... almost 30% of the stanchions are not fastened to the boat!
 
At first I was annoyed thinking they were set screws that had worked loose because of poor installation / lack of Loctite, etc. then I removed one so that I could search for replacements and realized they were well over an inch long and difficult as all heck to get out... that left only one conclusion absolute negligence on the part of those that installed the stanchions, the quality control folks that inspected the boat and Sail yard itself that should have gone over the boat before it left their yard.

Lets see, what else…
· By the time we hit Marathon, the contents of the holding tank was backing up into the bowl on a regular basis… turns out the joker valve was shot after only a few months… no problems since it was replace.

· The swim platform was not properly secured.  If I’m not mistaken only 1 of 8 bolts had a nut on it!

· The Anchor Windlass is close to worthless… Lewmar requires a minimum of 12” from the bottom of the windlass to the top of the chain pile… Lewmar goes on to say “There must be sufficient vertical fall for the chain or rope, even with a full locker; to draw the rode from the gypsy when hauling in.”

Hanse has left less than 12” between the bottom of the windlass and the bottom of the locker… so the chain bunches up under the windlass after every 5-10 feet!

Try holding open the cover to the chain locker with your hip, the windlass controls in your left hand while reaching down underneath the windlass with your right hand to pull out the chain before it jams all the while keeping an eye out and providing the person at the helm with instructions using hand signals… oh wait, you don’t have any free hands for hand signals do you?

Another great example of German Engineering?

· Not only am I missing a good number of manuals… (e.g. I don't have any info on the fuel/water separator, but the manual for the boat itself is completely off!
Our manual states that our water tanks are in the salon, while in fact they are in the v-berth, tankage volumes for fuel and water are off, we have no info whatsoever on parts, fuses, plumbing, etc. On the other hand, the manuals for my lowly, inferior Catalina lists every single part and has detailed diagrams which come in very handy when you need to fix something.

· They had to replace the water heater, because "rusty" sediment was still coming out of the system… turns out the darn thing had steel fittings and the entire tank was rusting away… they did replace it with a proper all stainless marine water heater.

· The fresh water system pump "spurts" more or less constantly making a real mess… they replaced it with a slightly better variable speed pump that seems to be working fine at this point… we’ll see.

· Various oxidizing components… from fasteners, to stanchions to the shrouds… the response? “It’s stainless, not stainFREE”  All I can say here is that my 1981 Catalina looks better than my brand new Hanse 400e… guess they used better quality materials back then!

· And last, but not least, the quality of the finish around the various teak inserts in the cockpit leaves a lot to be desired… again, perhaps I wouldn’t be making such a big deal about it if I had purchased a Bavaria or a Beneteau (no offense intended), but I purchased a Hanse… I expected better… now I know better!


I could continue, but you get the picture… I purchased a Hanse 400e, I’m stuck with it and I’ll make the best of it, but I will not stand by and let someone else make the same mistake! 

Annapolis Sailyard, Inc. has been trying to make good, but the operative word here is trying… Maria & I have gone above and beyond, getting by without refrigeration, dealing with leaks etc. for months so that they wouldn’t have to pay the exorbitant prices being charged in the Keys. Is Hanse gumming up the works or is Sailyard simply not putting adequate manpower behind it?  It no longer matters at this point; we’ve run out of patience!  We’ve been sitting here in Annapolis for more than a month and still we wait!

This could be a great boat, it handles nicely, the layout is great for a cruising couple, great storage, etc.   But until Hanse Yachts works out the various design flaws and dramatically improves both it’s Quality Control and it’s post sales support, I would suggest you look elsewhere for a new boat.

We'll keep everyone posted of our progress or lack thereof!
Until next time,
Carlos & Maria
SV Rocinante



-------------
you may not be able to control the wind,
but you can adjust your sails

http://www.myinternetdoorman.com - My Internet Doorman -The easiest way to keep porn out of your home...Guaranteed!™



Replies:
Posted By: Richard108
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 16:30
Thanks Carlos & Maria for such a detailed report.
 
My new Hanse arrives in about a week and I would like to sort out as much as I can before I accept delivery.
 
Is it possible for you to list the rest of the faults you have not yet listed, so new owners can check for potential issues and not accept the boats until they are fixed.


-------------
Regards Richard



("Moksha" 540 #115 delivered Sept 2007)

Pittwater, Sydney, Australia


Posted By: hanse-1
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 18:03
Hello, I can help you with a list for 430e.
 
First of all: check the underwater hull, it may not be finished.  The hull of Hanse 430e was made in two halves, this was not completed, I had to stop the factory 2 times in puttting it to sea. the seal between them was only done where the transport wagon did not hide it.  2. time to stop them was when they had put some epoxy in , which was not hardened.
 
The forestay  with roller did not give enough room for the sail,  to go around without destroying the webbing holding the sail down.
This thing have I fixed by myself.
 
The line leader through deck was mounted the wrong way, the workers must have seen this, because the line was put up back of the wheel( there was not enough space in front of the wheel). This was repaired when I was there.
 
The black windows over the cabintop is very hot in sunshine; it lifts the cabintop so that there is an opening inside the roof of about 3 mm. The teak on the cabintop is also starting to rises, not long before it will fall of.
The rest of the teak is also very poor laid; there is not enough sikaflex, in the coming winter I will expect it to fall of.
 
When I had the boat ashore for underwatertreatment, the rubberseal on the saildrive was hanging halfway down. There was no sign of glue on the hull, and no sign of sanding it.
There was also coming water under the keel, here we discovered a hole in the keel. The dealer took later the boat ashore and repaired the hole with epoxi. This they told me was bad job after sealing the bolthole when mounting the leadbulb to the steelframe of the keel.
 
The deck is cracking around where the vant is fastened. This has been repaired by the dealer. I think the worker has used some kind of a nailbrusher, before filling it with new topcoat. I told the dealer to remount the rigging, but the factory had told him that this was the way to do it.. We both could see some cracking after the job was done, an now there is more cracking, also wider on the deck.   
 
Inside, the boat is not as it should be, very rough work is done behind the gloss of wooden pices. The fastening to the hull would I be ashamed of to tell I was responsible to.( glad i am not.)
There is a leak in the front cabin, one of the dealers man told me that I had to live with this. 1(I must be careful not to write too much) plate on the roof is falling down, some bolts are nearly coming through the inside roof, they may be too long for the job they was ment to do.
 
The heater did not warm up the front cabin, this was too long way for the warm air to go, the dealer told me, the factory men had said. Well, i have made the warm air to go to the front cabin, it was just a job to do; take away som airhose and make them the right way to the outlet.
 
Engine, a nice reliable Yanmar 4JH4e, I thought.
This engine have stopped 2 times, 1. time there was 60l fuel left on the tank, but the engine had got some air in the system. 2. stop, loading the batteri in the North Sea Yacht Race the engine run for about 1 minute then
it stopped. Air in the system was the reason. There was about 200l left on the tank.
 
The windlass, a nice  and good thing, espesially for my back.
1. time I would use this nice thing, I had to use the spinnakerhalyard to get the anchor up again, it took me 2 hours work and I am still not recovered in my back. The reason for this was that the cabular was for 10mm chain, not for 8 mm which I had.
Now I have 10mm calibrated chain.
 
 The instruments is all SIMRAD, very good as long as they work, my dealer told me. I have 4 in the cockpit; autopilot, windx2, and a combi. 3 of this is leaking from time to time. The auto is not reliable, suddenly it has no rudder feedback, the dealer tried it he say, but when I left him it was no rudderfeedback. He also said the best I could do was to put my hand on them, what do yoy think he ment with that? I would prefer him to change them.
 
Yesterday, I changed the cable from the GPS antenna to the chartplotter, and there it was ok again. The last position was just south of the Sleipner A, an oil platform in the North Sea. This fail of position, may have costed us some hours in the race.
 
I think i know why the other instruments also have some trouble to send the signal on the Simnet; in the cockpit floor there is a locker. When there is some rain or worse the sea is coming all over the yacht, it is leaking, the seal did not match. But the problem ,in my yacht, the factory HANSE YACHTS have made some cableconnections here, right under the locker (it was probably the best place to work ,in the light.).
 
Why the hell do the SAILOR BUILD THE BOAT LIKE THIS FOR THE SAILOR?
 
In the autum or in the winter, the dealer will have a job to do. if they still are there,.
 
My conclusion : The hanse 430e was a great boat which have been destroyd by the men who build her, and the men who should control her.
 
My english is not perfect. I think some wise men or women will understand it, anyway, Det Norske Veritas understand perfectly norwegians. 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Alex Faber
Date Posted: 14 July 2007 at 09:29
Carlos, Maria and Hanse-1,
Thank you very much for your detailed reports. This will help us (people waiting for delivery) a lot.
I asked my (Belgian) dealer to comment on the topics I found most important:
- The construction for bonding of the two hull halves
- The excess movement of the shrouds to hull connection
- The use of non-marine grade stainless steel
- Leakages
Will inform you about his reply.

-------------
s/y eMotion (H430e #24)


Posted By: Keoghser
Date Posted: 14 July 2007 at 19:09
We purchased a 342 in March and other than a delay of a couple of weeks I have no complaints. 
 
We have two outstanding items; We are still waiting for the spray hood  which I could be bothered about but I haven't been in heavy enough weather yet to miss it.  The auto pilot is not working but again I haven't needed it yet so I haven't made a big fuss as I am enjoying sailing at the moment.
 
I had a list of about 7or 8 items when we purchased it and the others were dealt with.  I noticed the anchor chain building up too but I would say there is 12" there - I will check tomorrow.
 
We love sailing her and I expected teething problems in the beginning. Being honest I expected more problems (I am now touching every bit of wood in the room).
 
My agent is pretty relaxed but I know if I demanded action this week I would get his best efforts. 
 
I am sorry for your troubles.  We drive a Volvo which unusually has given us unbelievable problems - It's a 'Monday' car!  Sounds like you got a 'Monday' boat.
 
Bets of luck with your future travels - I will be watching out to see how you get on and BTW; keeping an eye out for your problems turning up on our boat.
 
Peter


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 14 July 2007 at 23:06
I have had my 342 for almost two years and I haven't yet been able to tick off all the items on my list, partly because some issues haven't been fixed in a very long time and partly because new issues arise.

I will propably go into more detail about this in a later thread.

In the meantime I would like to say that I support what you guys do - those of you who have already purchased your boat don't let wrongs go unnoticed when you tell about them at this forum, and those of you still negotiating with your dealers will keep them on their toes, which hopefully will make sure that every customer get what they pay for.

Johan Hackman
Stockholm
Sweden

-------------

http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: ueitugò
Date Posted: 16 July 2007 at 11:19
The problems that svrocinante and hanse-1 pointed out are absolutely not minor ones, and both of them have my sympathy. When it comes to quality control, boats are not cars or consumer electronics, so some glitches are to be expected, but the problems they reported are really major ones.

My 400e didn't show major problems so far (since 3 weeks only, so now I'm crossing my fingers), and I'm pleased with the way it sails, although I can report a number of minor issues and a number of details I would like to change (windlass, fridge, halyards, lines, etc.). I assume this is commonplace with mid-priced boats,  but some problems simply depend on poor assemblage, so they're (partly) independent of the price tag of the boat.

For instance, my boat had a leak from the water pipes. It was 40 cm from the gauge at the water tank, where the section of the pipes was reduced using two nipples. On their thread there was no teflon film or similar sealant, and the nipples were very loosely assembled. If the same problem was located in a less convenient place it would have been much harder to spot and fix. And it was not a matter of price, it was just the outcome of a very poor assemblage (with no quality control at all). The mixed debris I found while I was looking for the leak was another evidence for the below-average care for assemblage.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that Hanse design is good, although it is aimed at saving as much money as possible: did you ever wonder why the furniture is not as high as the "ceiling" (sorry, I don't know the correct English word)? Saving money that way, however, is absolutely ok as far as it allows to pack more features for the same price, or even to have simpler and more reliable assemblage procedures, but I'm afraid this is not the case with Hanse. My opinion is that they're trying to minimize the cost of each new boat beyond a fair level, and to speed up their production as much as possible, probably hiring new workers that are not properly trained. This will probably result in selling more charter boats, but won't help customers' satisfaction.

Just my 2 cents...


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 16 July 2007 at 12:59
carlos, hanse-1,
 
it is very worrying as my  boat is expected in about 2 months time. i do hope most of your problems can be resolved. i reckon my previous boat had many problems but it was a second hand one and 25 years old. i am afraid that with so much problems, sailing become secondary and fixing the boat becomes first.
i feel that if people at hanse is reading this forum, something might be done before the reputation of this boat is ruined.
 
still i hope that it's just one or two that are like this. they do make 500+ boats a year!
 
however, my sympathies to those that have to overcome this major problems.
 
leslie


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: svrocinante
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 22:42
Once again, thank you for your support.

I'm happy to report that at a minimum, communications have improved dramatically!

I'm getting regular updates from Don Walsh of Hanse USA.
And my lifeline gates have been repaired / replaced.

I'm glad to see that Hanse and Sailyard are working together to resolve these issues... and I will hopefully be able to report back on how great a job they've done to salvage this relationship!

Carlos & Maria
SV Rocinante


-------------
you may not be able to control the wind,
but you can adjust your sails

http://www.myinternetdoorman.com - My Internet Doorman -The easiest way to keep porn out of your home...Guaranteed!™


Posted By: Perchanse
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 22:52
My first reaction to the list of things wrong was horror. Then I looked again and while I have had some small issues many of the problems you have had should have been fixed by the dealer.  We have an excellent sub-dealer in New Zealand and he employs a first class boat builder to assemble and commission the boat.  He checks all the instruments, hose fittings, hatch seals, gets the right size chain for the anchor winch ( your Dealer must not be so good for such a silly mistake as 8mm chain for 10mm winchdrum). Also fixes shipping damage, reglues the saildrive rubberseal (All imports do this badly), Alters the rigging where necessary, fixes cabinetry misalignment etc,etc.  These are production boats and when I made the decision to buy production boat as opposed to a new Zealand made boat I factored in another 50,000 dollars to make the boat the way I wanted it.  If I had bought a non production boat it would have cost me 80% more than the price I paid and with all the same teething problems.  My Brother just had a boat built by a reputable NZ builder for 1.8 million and the finish was fantastic but the drive shaft came undone, The hatches all leaked, the pressure hose burst on the salt pump nearly filling the engine room, the propeller vibrated badly, the headlining got filled with water, The electronics played up like hell, etc etc.  I am an Engineer who designed and made high pressure gas compressors from  50-600 hp and have now sold my company but I have been on the other end and you are relying on employees and training them.  It is necessary to give your feedback to Hanse and I have sent mine in.  However, I am happy I have a strong boat, epoxy, designed by Judel Vrolik, supported by a good agent, looks good, Sails brilliantly and has much better resale value than Bavaria, Beneteau, Dufour, Jeanneau, Elan,etc. This forum is great for ideas, solutions to problems, meeting new people.  We should not make it a them and us wingeing post.  Life is too short!  Happy Sailing,
Hugh


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 19 July 2007 at 04:16
 
Perchanse,
Agree with your post but will still keep fingers crossed.
 
leslie


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: hanse-1
Date Posted: 19 July 2007 at 06:55
This page is really good! Someone did wonder if Hanse read this pages, I am not sure about what they do. Anyway, they know what is written and they take it seriously, I know.
My boat will have new instruments or fixed the cables soon, and the other problems will also be taken care off, my dealer say.
So, I really hope that my super hull will have the chance to be a complete yacht that  they call Hanse! She deserves that!
Have a nice day, all Hanse owners, to day the sun is shining.  


Posted By: ahrg
Date Posted: 19 July 2007 at 13:20
i took delivery of my 370 earlier this year. i have worked through a list of topics since and fortunately only few remain unchecked by now. it will take taking the boat out of the water to deal with them, which will only take place by the end of the season in late october. 
i must say that the overall reponsiveness of my dealer here in germany was quite good. when it took longer to fix things it seemed to be hanses fault.
until all the remaining items are not ticked off i have decided not to pay for my deliver invoice. i have communicated this point to them when they urged me to pay and until now it seems like they are accepting this.
according to several sources hanse's organizational setup is not living up to the phenomenal growth of the company (from 300 ships p.a. five years ago to 1000 this year). many items on my list were clearly due to poor or non-existant quality control throughout the manufacturing, assembling and delivery process. after sales is then left with trying to deal with all the complaints coming in. they have had a headcount of five three years ago and guess how many they are now???? you guessed right: 5! the result is, that the louder you scream the  more likely they will pick your file to help you.
hanse should deal with this situation quickly. if they do not, this is what should worrie owners most, because when the quality perception & relity suffers long term, the resale value of hanse will do so too.
cheers,
alexander
 


Posted By: digme
Date Posted: 19 July 2007 at 18:44
I guess Hanse would benefit from some improvements in their QA system. Leaving too much of the final check to the dealers may not be a good idea. In my part of the world, most dealers and boatyards have too much to do at the start of season and at the start of the holiday season. In addition it's hard to find qualified workers.
 
It's somewhat annoying, having to wait for the dealer to sort out production problems after having paid Hanse in full when the boat was shipped from Greifswald.
 
A small number of issues would be the normal case for most boats of this size, but for every thing that's done wrong or not properly finished I think: How many such blunders are hidden where I cannot spot them? Due to the track record of Hanse I feel quite safe, but every small mistake makes me look for more.
 
Outside the very busy periods the local Hanse dealer provides good service at decent speed when I'm sorting out problems and adding more equipment. And, most issues is making changes and adding equipment to adapt a standard boat to my personal preferences. Most of the issues I'd like to discuss with the dealer is how to adapt the boat while keeping the good features of the Hanse design.


Posted By: Popeye
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 20:51

Chipping in my 5-cents worth. I am now on my second season with my 370, she is a vintage model with build number in low 20's. I have just finished my 3 week summer sailing holiday and have met a lot of "happy honeymoon" new Hanse owners, and also owners of other new boats. Obviously everyone asks each other "are you happy with the boat". Generally I bite my teeth a little bit and say yes, happy with the boat, but not with the local dealer. A couple of times I let down my guard and admit that I think it is dissapointing that such a good boat should be tainted by stupid mistakes / cost saving from Hanse.

I have used a long time "discussing" with the dealer and Hanse about their use of A2 grade stainless steel on stanchions, guard wires, rigging bolts, etc.  Finally someone bit the bullet and I got everything changed to A4 (fyi: A2 rusts when exposed to salt water / salt air, and A4 doesn't), and I now see that at least the critical rigging bolts are now A4 on the new 370's coming out of Greifswald.
 
Other pet hates are pulsating fresh water system, fuel tank gauge hopelessly useless (I have made my own scale by filling from empty and noting at each 20 liters on the filling pump display), vibration on rudder & wheel under power (quite powerfull small kicks), ridiculous force on jib furler (quick fix is now to go forward on deck and pull out 10 meters of slack on the jib sheet, that is where the terrible friction is), leaking Vetus anti-siphon valve on engine cooling line(changed to a bigger dimensioned toilet anto-siphon U-bend, no problems since), seriously noisy exhaust note (sounds like a cheap car with a silencer fallen off).
 
I still like the boat, and have done a series of personal upgrades and tuning to get it the way I like, such as ventilator above shower, portlights on side and top of aft cabin / starboard store room, mast steps (2 of), Rutgerson sliders on headboard and battens, double purchase jib sheet, framework for forward mounted bow anchor winch allowing almost 60cm of drop to chain pyramid (and plenty of room for fenders and ropes), TV, stereo, Sterling alternator booster, extra insulation of engine room openings, stiffened water tank (foamed in against grp bed base), starboard stowage room split into two parts allowing top part to become starboard cockpit locker (mirrored from port side), slightly stretched bow roller (5cm), rear anchor winch with fold down / outward arm, frosted perspex folding cockpit table.
 
Things still to be done for next season: more stretch on bow roller and integrated platform to walk on / ladder down to jetty (or rocks / beach), jammer on shower door (to stop it slamming open / shut in big seas), upgraded exhaust silencers / more of them, extra purchase on backstay tensioner (have block and ropes ready to fit).
 
Killer question: Would I buy another Hanse?
 
Current feeling: Nope when it comes to build quality, technical solutions behind the scenes, petty cost saving.  Yes when it comes to interior layout, light woods, deck layout, self tacker, sailing performance, classic coachroof, modern hull, bathing platform.
 


-------------
Popeye the sailorman


Posted By: Ever Hopefull
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 23:29
Hi Popeye,

that was quite a useful and concise report - thanks! Would you be able to post pictures of your modified anchor winch mount?

cheers,
Tim - 370e #418


-------------
Sailing in Paradise
Tim


Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 09:24
Hi Popeye,
Could you give me your opinion of the Sterling AB1290 charge booster as I  want to beef up the charging system on "Sublime".  Did you change the standard alternator on the Yanmar, and if not, have you had any issues with it running too hot? How many amp hours are you keeping charged with this system? (We have 330Ahrs of house and 80Ahrs start to keep going).
Thanks,
Hawkeye


Posted By: Alex Faber
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 18:58
Popeye,
It has always been very interesting and informative to read your posts and so again this time.
As far as I know, not many water-cooled exhaust systems have got silencers, apart from the water lock. The water is supposed to take up the heat (energy / noise) from the gasses. Are you sure your seawater system brings up enough water?
In the past, when I heard more noise than usually from the exhaust, either a part of the impeller was missing or the strainer needed to be cleaned.

-------------
s/y eMotion (H430e #24)


Posted By: lukemi
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 13:27

Wow. A lot of information in this post to digest. Since I view Svrocinante (400) as the sister ship to Stella Maris (370e) I though it may be worth a few words added to this post. When looking for a quality used Sailboat, our Broker had shown us several used boats, then suggested we look at the new Hanse selections. I had seen the Hanse at several trade shows in the past and liked the design but did not want to invest in a new boat at the time. That said, a 370e was ordered in April 2006 from SailYard after many months of boat evaluations. A 400 was ordered sometime after this date for display in the October 2006 boat show in Annapolis. I believed that the 400 had an accelerated production schedule to meet the October 4 show start. The 400 was delivered in late September ahead of Stella Maris. Stella Maris had been promised late September but slipped to the third week of October. I have to believe that the 400 may have been a victim of poor quality control due to the need to have a Hanse 400 shown at the trade show. I was a little surprised to find that this boat had sold after the trade show within two weeks. While I do have some concerns for quality design of the 370e, in most regards, I am very happy with the product. I was also pleased with the service provided by Accent Graphics (quick response and great graphic selections), Don and Donna at Canvas Creations (excellent winter cover, Bimini, and Dogger – latter delivery deferred to the following spring waiting for Svrocinante and Newport Race boat higher priority), Ken at Engineered Marine Systems (good recommendations for electronics, mounting, and use), others….

 

My review of the issues presented follows:

 

  1. Water leaks. I have yet to find any water leaks. I have seen several posts discussing this topic. I keep looking but, as of yet, have not found any issues. On delivery, one window was left open and water collected on cabinetry but I found this the next day, dried the wood and locked window.
  2. Jib Furler. This is a problem. Last week I was in St. Tomas (USVI) on a 83 Morgan 46’ Sailboat. Furler was great. Wish I had theirs. For a boat that is advertised as a single handed boat, the Furler is too hard. Hanse needs to go back and look at older designs and see what’s missing.
  3. Installed Switches. No problems noted on the 370e. I’m surprised this was not wired correctly in the 400. Better quality control needed here.
  4. Simrad Problems – Luckly the 370e did not have any electronics installed. This was all installed locally by Engineered Marine Systems. They suggested Raymarine for all equipment. No problems with ANY of this equipment at this time. The E80 is a great piece of equipment. Next year I’m adding a NMEA 2000 network for tank levels, engine performance, etc.
  5. Drawer Locks – Several had problems on the 370e. I think these should have been fixed by local dealer. I still need to respond to these but minor in scope. Some just need minor shaving of adjacent joint.
  6. Fridge – I would not recommend this design for a live aboard. Not enough room. It is fine for me though since I’m basically a weekend cruser and the beer is always cold in the evening. No noted problems with temperature. Good for wine, cheese, and leftovers but not much else. I would like to check the compressor vent though to make sure it is efficient based on information presented. I don’t think I would want a larger fridge though if I had to compromise on battery usage. I would like to check the top handle next time I’m at the boat.
  7. Stanchions – I reviewed the hardware on the 370e several months ago when the issue of A2 vs A4 hardware was introduced. All hardware seems solid. I do not seem to have the problems noted. All bolts seemed where they should be. Not sure what hardware was used on hull #166. I did have a few brown spots that were easily cleaned with a little WestMarine boat polish. Water in the Chesapeake is brackish so maybe I just have not had a problem yet with rust (so how do I find out if my bolts are A2 or A4??).
  8. Anchor Windless – I’m glad I didn’t buy this option from Hanse. Now that I have read all the posts on this site, I will have a Windless correctly installed over this coming winter. Thanks for all the info here.
  9. Manuals – Does Hanse have a manual??? I got a three ring binder with all the product literature of all installed items (i.e Yanmar, SparCraft, Filters, Pumps, etc.) I also got a Hanse Safety manual. I do not consider this a “boat” manual. This has been a great disappointment. I would have like to know what all the piping channels are, access plates, wiring, parts list, etc. HANSE Please make a real manual and send me a copy.
  10. Hot Water Heater – Have not been using mine (not much reason to pay for electric during week). I will after reading this. I’m concerned that my water heater may be same generation as the 400. I don’t want to find it broken when I start using it.
  11. Mainsail – Hard to lift (as noted in many posts). The Morgan noted above was a pleasure to lift the mainsail – NO WINCH. You don’t know what your missing until you try something different. I have ALWAYS had to use the winch to hoist the mainsail. (I’m exercising my biceps on every trip) Plan is to look at alternatives over the winter. 

 

I do not believe that I am “stuck” with my selection of the Hanse.  Most of the issues noted are cosmetic and can be easily resolved. I would hope that Hanse reviews these posts and strives for better quality. I know most companies would.

 

Regarding local dealer service… this could be improved. My original broker separated with SailYard during the summer of 06. For several months I did not know anyone to contact regarding delivery of my order. Due to legal issues between my original broker and SailYard, I have never had the strong relationship I would like with the dealer. Any issues usually take several Email/Phone exchanges to resolve. I have never heard of any suggestions, recalls, etc. from the local dealer (Do other dealers keep in touch with their customers?). It would be nice to have a little post sails support but…. maybe next time.

 

I would note that there is not much mention regarding performance. The 370e is fast and handles well. The interior is nice and well designed. I think the basic structure of the Hanse is a very good boat. Materials used in construction have been rated highly in many Sail reviews. Over the next several years I hope to improve this design with suggestions from posts from this site. When compared to the Catalina’s, Beneteau’s, and other boats in my local marina, the Hanse is a classic. My marina neighbor’s relatively new Catalina 31 has had many MAJOR issues with engine problems and window leaks. Maybe there’s just a problem with NEW sailboats. Have we lost the “polish” of older designs or just forgot that they had their problems in their day??? I guess any boat can have issues. I have sailed with many other boat owners this summer and they always have positive comments on the design features used on the Hanse.

 

 



Posted By: 371-#235
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 15:43
For all of you awaiting delivery of your boat and now fretting about your decision, here is my 2 cents worth:
 
I haven't experienced the problems that Rocinante has. Blondie doesn't leak at all - windows or other ingress.
 
The jib furls easily (I think because I don't use the 2:1 purchase for the jib sheet - single line works fine). The main goes up easily - I jump mine at the mast with little effort and great speed and use a large cam cleat I installed below the halyard exit hole to hold it temporarily between pulls.
 
I had Hanse install the wiring and shelf but put my own windlass in and it works well too.
 
The fridge isn't adequate for liveaboard (the 371's is smaller than the newer generation's) but works fine. I added and Engel fridge /freezer that I can't say enough about - low power consumption and high performance.
 
My SIMRAD gear works flawlessly (should I touch wood when I say that?)
 
The interior cabinetry is pristine - not even any shifting or opening in the caulking). Occasionally a cabinet latch won't open, however I find that a slight tap (very slight) beside the latch causes it to pop open immediatley.
 
Friends who have sailed with me in lumpy conditions comment about how the boat doesn't even creak below. A testament to the contruction strength. When I walk (and stomp) on the side decks I feel that solid feeling that is usually present in much more expensive blue water boats and definitley not as squishy as a Beneteau or Catalina. The 371 doesn't use a pan liner but intead has a robust grid system glassed to the hull. When you lift the ceiling panels you can see how well the bulkheads are glass tabbed to the roof (not glued like a Beneteau).  I have yet to see a boat of similar size that has the lazarette space that Hanse's have. The cockpit space puts most other brands of boats to shame.
 
Lastly - the sailing experience. The boat goes. The self tacker is brilliant and I notice other manufacturers and taking notice (check out the new Tartan 34). The reefing system works. When you are done sailing the main is easy to put away.
 
Improvement areas (besides the fridge) that I wish Hanse would LISTEN to are: PROPANE - in North America we use propane and other brands of boats have room for at least 2 - 10lb tanks.  TANKAGE - more room in the head holding tank, more diesel capacity.
 
All in all however - what a great boat!!
 
Bob, 371-#235


Posted By: JofB
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 19:27
I would like to echo Bob's comments based on my own experience of Grey Goose, an early production 400e.
We have sailed her for 18 months and there really have been no serious problems.  No leaks inside from tanks or pipes or through the hatches or windows.  The "stainless" steel needs an occasional polish but otherwise seems fine.  The only occasional slight problems have been electrical - major with getting the PC/radar to work at first but now fine and nothing to do with Hanse - and the IS12 Simrad wind sender unit has had to be replaced after starting to seriously under-read the wind strength, done at no cost after 15 months. 
I have had to replace just one halogen bulb, in the heads.  The fuel gauge (still a dial gauge not lights on GG) does over-read slightly but if I fill up when it reads 1/2 full it only takes about 85 to 90 litres, so not too far out.
All in all, she seems well built, doesn't creak whatever the weather (except for the occasional squeak from the sole in the forward cabin, like Carlos reported) and we love her, especially for the way she sails.
Yes, we do now usually need the winch when furling the jib as it has become stiffer with time.  I think that has much to do with the sheet becoming increasingly twisted, adding to the friction. 
We have Frederickson ball-slides on the main and still find it a struggle sometimes - will Santa bring me a powered winch, please - but on other occasion it is no problem.  It certainly pays to make sure the boom is not held down by the mainsheet or vang - when freer it reduces the friction hugely and makes the process much easier.
Looking at the list of problems that Carlos has suffered, regrettable as they are, several look like they have more to do with final pre-hand over work after the boat was delivered to the dealer than fundamental build problems at the factory.  For example, I doubt she was shipped with the stanchions in place and, unless the wiring was wrongly labelled, the incorrect connections may well have been made as the rig and lights were fitted.  Certainly we had no such problems.
That said, we all read of the various problems reported on this site that suggest that Hanse may be cutting some corners on the newer builds, rushing them out to keep up with the huge increase in demand and sometimes under-speccing equipment to save a few pounds/dollars/euros. 
In the long run, and as much as anything for the sake of the investment we have all made in our boats, I hope that they seriously reconsider that strategy.  I am sure we would all be happier to pay a little more for the better spec gear in the first place when it makes such little difference at the time of original build and, if necessary, wait a little while longer for the boats to be built well rather than rushed.
 
As for the comments re the dealer quality and how essential it is to one's overall perception of the buying process and ongoing ownership experience, I must join the many others in saying that Hanse UK in Hamble are brilliant. 
Nothing seems too much trouble and they have been very patient and understanding with this inexperienced first-time owner.  I have kept GG at Hamble Point so far and so they are on hand to sort any minor problem, take delivery of items I have ordered and so on.  I am only sorry to learn today that Dominic Horner has left them to pursue the career he trained for as a naval architect - I am sure all that know him will wish him well.


-------------
Jof
400e #31 - Grey Goose


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 02:50

Bob, Jof, all,

Thanks for sharing, my anxiety level has dropped 20%. Still have fingers crossed though.
 
Question : When the boat was produced and shipped, was your boats already invoiced and the bill of sale(or other equivalent) in your name or was it in the name of your agents?
 
Leslie
 


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: ueitugò
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 09:55
When I ordered my 400e I paid in advance 20% of the boat cost, and that was billed in my name by the local dealer. After a few months the boat was ready and I had to pay the remaining 80% before shipment (by truck, crossing Germany, Austria and Italy). Since I leased the boat, I had to sign a (blind!) receipt for my leasing company. Basically, I declared that I got the boat and that everything was ok and in compliance with my order. Considering that Hanse is 2000+ km far and that I couldn't see the boat, I felt a bit uncomfortable. So, the leasing company paid the remaining 80% of the boat price to the local dealer and the boat was shipped. Of course, I had an adequate insurance coverage for the boat since the day iI signed that receipt.

As for problems with my 400e, after the first month I can only report a leaking water pipe (luckily found and easily fixed) and a failure with the repeater of the SIMRAD CX33 plotter (blue screen, doesn't work anymore). So, I keep crossing my fingers.

The jib furler is not the smoothest I tried, but I don't need the winch to furl the jib. The main sail is still hard to hoist, but I can go up to 4/5 of the mast pulling the halyard by hand (at the base of the mast) and then I use the 46 winch on the right side of the cockpit (much better than the 40 one!). A (tiny) little bit of silicon grease helped a lot.

As for other issues, they're the same other owners reported: the fridge takes ages to reach a decent temperature, the quality of halyards and lines is miserable, the anchor windlass is hopeless, the engine is a bit noisy, etc. However, the good news is that the boat sails wonderfully and is really fast.

Basically, Hanse needs a better quality control and must pay more attention to some details. Moreover, saving a few euros/dollars on lines and bolts doesn't pay back when it comes to customer satisfaction.

All the best,

Michele



Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 20:13
Leslie-
You can ask the dealer to draw up the contract the way you want but I suspect most are similar. That being - significant money put forward by yourself particularly when the boat is factory complete - the dealer has to pay the factory before shipping occurs so your "deposits" go towards this. However, finaly payment of the total price by you is not done until you sign off and take delivery of the boat (this final payment is likely around 15%). Putting the boat in your name does not occur until that sign off. So the boat is not shipped with you as the owner so it remains the dealer responsbility at that point
 
Steve


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 03:37
Many thanks Michele and Steve,
 
I wanted to know when I actually become the owner as my agent is in Thailand and I am in Singapore. I would have to foot 100% prior to shipment, and freight and taxes when landed(so actually 100% paid) before I see the boat!!
 
Since now, I have a whole list of things that may have to be rectified before taking over? (Thanks to this forum at least I know what to expectThumbs%20Up.)
 
I'll speak to the agent again to see how I can perhaps hold back some payment until satisfactory conclusion of the handover. 
 
Contrary to what many had said about Hanse quality, I sailed the 315 (5 months old) in Thailand for a day and thought the finish was better than a brand new Beneteau 343 and a brand new Hunter 33....all of which I was on board or helped rig the boat. After my viewing on these boats, many things were left much to be desired.
 
Perhaps the agent in Thailand(Hanse) had rectified all the major faults before I tested the boat. If so then my boat would be in similar condition and I would be very happyBig%20smile.
 
Leslie


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 06:37
Hi Guys,
In New Zealand and Australia the deal is 10% on order, 70% prior to shipping and the balance 10 days prior to the boat arriving.
This concerned me so I did the following.
1. Ask the agent for the contact details of all clients from the last 2 years  and call 10 of them at random. They will soon tell you if the agent is thorough with pre-delivery checks and efficient at fixing any issues that arise. Everyone I spoke to praised our local agent, and his performance has been fantastic. The one major problem I had (with my chartplotter) was rectified within 24 hours of notifying the agent. If the agent is  no good, don't buy a yacht from them.
2. I was concerned about ownership not changing hands until delivery. I obtained confirmation from the factory that the first 10% had been received and  paid the factory directly for the 70% amount. While this did not  guarantee ownership, it did mean there was a clear paper trail covering who actually made the payment in the event the agent became insolvent.
3. If possible, ensure that payments you make are channelled by the agent thru a trust account. They are then protected if the agent becomes insolvent.
4. Insist that your interest is noted on the shipping insurance policy. This greatly protects your position if the yacht is damaged or lost in transit (Don't laugh - one of the ships that transports Hanses here was totally destroyed by fire in late 2006.)
5. Stop panicking and enjoy your yacht. Yes they have some minor issues, some of which are down to personal preference and some are a result of this being a (relatively) inexpensive production boat. Never-the-less they are very well engineered, strongly built, available in epoxy, nicely laid out and perform way above average for their size. I suggest you read Perchance's comments in the "Why you should by a 430" post.  As with EVERY production boat, the local agent has responsibility (and  a percentage of the sale price) to fix any issues.  Choose a good agent and you will have a good experience.
Cheers,
Hawkeye, 370e #164


Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 10:40
Take care with cash down payment without bank guarantee. Here in Germany a lot of customers lost their money due to insolvency of a big Bavaria dealer in June this year. The chance to get the money back is close at zero.
 
My question is, why can't you agree for example 10% deposit (against bank-guarantee), 80% before delivery (against bank guarantee) and the rest of 10% after inspection and testing?
A reputable dealer should have no problems with that, if so take care - its a lot of money. 


-------------
BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370


Posted By: Perchanse
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:22
Regarding mainsail hoisting and ease of hoisting.  I sent my son up in the bosun's chair with a can of Teflon/silicon spray.  Sprayed the track from top to bottom and what a difference.  Hardly need the winch except for the top 2 or 3 feet.  Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Hugh (430e)


Posted By: Popeye
Date Posted: 28 July 2007 at 19:44
Getting back to some follow up questions:
 
Sterling AB1290: I am happy with it, provides a good charge voltage to both battery sets (single engine and triple house), and it doesn't melt when I use the anchor winches (like the standard Hanse fitted unit did). It's mounted upside down in the "spiders web" cupboard underneath the main fuse and switch panel.
 
Winch frame: took pictures today, will load up soon
 
Instrument binnacles (from another thread): ditto, which will show my Raymarine C80 fitted on it's standard bracket right on top of the pidestall (off to one side), replacing one of the perspex cupholders.
 
Exhaust: I have checked out Vetus.com which has usefull info on waterlocks, mufflers and goosenecks; and have also read the palby.com (who make the Hanse fitted combined DPC waterlock & silencer). I think a bit of the problem is the JH series of engines from Yanmar all have a 3" exhaust output, most likely rated from the biggest 125hp engine, then use common parts thro the entire range. So my 40hp has a big fat pipe / hose which is doesn't fill well with water (i.e. reduced silencing). From vetus and palby one can see that a 3" system of parts will handle 150hp of noise. I will do a bit of crawling around the back of the boat to see if I can squeeze in an extra silencer aft of the rear bulkhead. I will also check the rear bit of the engine bay / under bed bit to see if I can get in an early waterlock. This is worth a couple of hundred euros of parts to experiment with, afterall I have my reference boat being a Bavaria Match 42 with 40hp and jokingly little noise in the cockpit, so little that I had to lean over the side to check that the engine was on and see the exhaust water. If Bavaria can get it quite, then so can others.
 
A2 / A4 stainless ID: look on the head of the bolts, they will be stamped with either A2-70(80) or A4-70(80. The first is the material type, the latter is the strength. I am about to do a highschool type experiment, two cups of salt water, one bolt type in each, shake each day, and see how long one takes to show surface rust!
 
Mainsail: yes definately wash the groove and spray with teflon / PTFE spray (make sure it is dry spray - like spray paint, and not oily spray, which will collect dust). The teflon spray helps even if you have ballslides fitted, my Rutgerson ones went a bit "off" mid-season, and are back in business again after a wash'n'spray, the sail literally falls into it's stack-pack on the way down, and is easily hoisted (at the mast, with camcleat) to the top, the tensioned from the cockpit (halyard neatly jumping out of camcleat).
 
Septic / holding tank: agree too small, will be fitting a 2-way valve to allow dumping straight to sea (for fluids) or pumping to tank (for solids). Only problem is I either need another 2 way valve ahead of the current outgoing seacock, or I need another dedicated seacock (not liking too many holes in the hull, reckon I will go for a double set of 2-way valves).


-------------
Popeye the sailorman


Posted By: Popeye
Date Posted: 29 July 2007 at 17:07
Picture of stainless steel frame for mounting of bow anchor winch in foremost position, giving good and proper fall of chain pyramid, pluss plenty of space aft for fenders and ropes. Black cable running up the locker lid is the control cable, which is plenty long to enable going forward to check / orientate anchor on way up over roller, and it also has a clearance to the lid, so I can use the cable even although the lid is closed. Black stuff on top of the actual winch (a 1000W Genius unit from Quick) is marine anti-slip tape, so I can stand on top of winch on way forwards. Shown is 50mtr of chain, plenty room for more without backing up and jamming the winch. The framework is designed such that the pull loads are reacted from the front edge, and the rotational loads / upwards twist are reacted far back. All screws are beefy self tappers into the thick laminate, no need for thro bolts and nuts on rear due to load reactions. All rear fasteners work in shear, so in essence they are working like nails. Only problem discovered is that I had to grind off some of the front edge of the lid to give clearance to the running chain, since the winch is placed totally at max height within the locker. No big deal, just grind off and epoxy over the exposed laminate. The locker is actually big enough for me to sit inside with a torch with lid closed, which I did whilst installing the winch. Frame was built with extra support roller at front edge, but I found out that this fouled the lid, so I removed the actual roller.
 
 


-------------
Popeye the sailorman


Posted By: Popeye
Date Posted: 29 July 2007 at 17:22

Raymarine C80 fitted on it's standard mounting bracket, in place of the left cupholder. I made a thin "rotation disc" of plastic to avoid scratching the pidestal, and the M8 bolt is position more or less exactly in the middle of where the "cup" would've been on the cupholder. Nyloc lock nut underneath means I can swivel the unit without things loosening. I can swivel so the unit can be read when sitting outboard to port, or swivel to point midships. The whole thing was done as a temporary quick fix at the start of the season, but after a couple of months use I see no reason to change. As opposed to units fixed in pods or clamps on top of the pidestall rails this one does not blind forward vision whilst sitting behind the wheel.


-------------
Popeye the sailorman


Posted By: svrocinante
Date Posted: 03 August 2007 at 15:28
Nice solution for the anchor windlass issue Popeye... thanks for the photo.
 
BTW, Hanse is sending someone from Germany this weekend to work on Rocinante... fingers crossed!
 
Not convinced everything will end up OK on this iteration, but at least they're actively working the issues and I'm confident they will stick with it until everything is resolved.
 
Don Walsh from Hanse USA has been very responsive and has done a great job keeping me up to date.
 
Carlos


-------------
you may not be able to control the wind,
but you can adjust your sails

http://www.myinternetdoorman.com - My Internet Doorman -The easiest way to keep porn out of your home...Guaranteed!™


Posted By: svrocinante
Date Posted: 03 August 2007 at 15:45

 

Not unlike popeye, this was my solution to the instrument mount... swing arm picked up at West marine... works great, as popeye mentioned, set-up lets me swing my C120 to starboard or port or my wife's favorite, straight back towards the companionway for those cold night watchs... also keeps line of sight open for her when she is at the helm (she's 5'-2")

 

Regards,

Carlos



-------------
you may not be able to control the wind,
but you can adjust your sails

http://www.myinternetdoorman.com - My Internet Doorman -The easiest way to keep porn out of your home...Guaranteed!™


Posted By: landlocked
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 04:52

I’m happy to see some good posts warning of problems that others have found on their boats.  It’s a pain to discover problems, especially when they are not cost tradeoffs or design flaws, but simple quality control errors.   I tried (unsuccessfully) to start a thread for these (see “factory flubs” in the Chit Chat forum http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1272 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1272 ).   On the other hand, it’s a great advantage to be able to learn from the experience of others with the same equipment on this forum.

 

I don’t have any other new-boat experiences to compare to so I have trouble comparing Hanse to other builders. 

 
Would I buy another Hanse?  I think I would as long as I factored in time for an extensive inspection and held back a significant payment.  
 
The problem is, we love the boat and wouldn’t want anything else.  It seems like they built the perfect boat for us, they just didn’t build it terribly well.   Great design and architecture choices, but some sloppy execution.   It really is a shame because it seems they are missing the chance to become a premier boatbuilder.  (Michael Schmidt, if you're listening, go and hire a good Quality Assurance manager and put him in charge for a while).  ‘Hanse-1’ really echoed my thoughts in his post (in English much better than my Norweigan):

My conclusion : The hanse 430e was a great boat which have been destroyd by the men who build her, and the men who should control her.”

 

I won’t repeat some of the comments I’ve already posted before, but here’s some feedback on some of the issues that others have mentioned in this thread (nearing the end of our second season of use):

 

Leaks:

-         none discovered yet.

 

Headsail furler:

-         This is a very common complaint.  I agree that the main problem is probably the added friction of the sheet blocks, mast sheave and deck organizers.   I also found that the lead angle for the line entering the drum was not perpendicular to the forestay as it is supposed to be. 

-         I removed some of the excess line and added ball-bearing stanchion blocks and turning blocks which yielded some improvement.  I also fixed the lead angle to the drum.  I also locked the block on the jibsheet so it doesn’t twist, adding to the friction.  It’s better now but still not great.  I can furl from the cockpit, just not with a smile on my face.

-         My dealer has promised to fix this from day one (15 months ago) but still nothing…

-         We need a very easy furler to go with the self-tacking sheet arrangement.

 

Drawer/Cabinet latches:

-         I finally removed and modified all of mine.  There’s a metal part inside with sharp edges that seems to eventually start catching on the plastic and jamming the mechanism.

 

Floorboard squeaks:

-         Mine were also very bad until I lifted them and sanded the edges.  It looks like when they round the edges the tool leaves a pretty rough surface so the boards bind against each other and squeak.   I smoothed them and in some cases sanded enough to provide a tiny bit of clearance.   They are completely silent now.

 

Water heater:

-         So that’s why we seem to get brown water now when we first run the hot faucet.   I think ours must be starting to rust too, only now it is not under warranty.

 

Water pump:

-         We had the problem with pulsating as well and have a new pump now.   It still doesn’t deliver water very well to the cockpit shower though.

 

Rubber fairing for saildrive:

-         It sounds like this falls off on every boat.

 

Cabin Heater:

-         Ours overheats and shuts off, and you need to cycle the power to reset it.   The final comment from our dealer is that it is not his problem nor Hanse’s and we should take it up with Webasto.  Thanks.

 

Vibration on rudder and wheel under power:

-         I’m glad to hear that others have observed this.  I’ve assumed it’s just from the turbulent prop wash going around the rudder, but it is disconcerting when you wonder if there’s any other cause.

 

Trouble raising/dropping main:

-         We finally broke down and upgraded to a strongtrack system and this is no longer an issue.

 

 

Finally, here’s one problem I had that I have yet to see mentioned on this website:

 

Trouble raising/lowering jib:

-          At the start we could barely pull the jib down out of the foil.  It has gotten a little better with time but is still too tight.  A year later I had a final verdict from our dealer.  Incredibly, this is what he had to say about the jib that came with the boat:  The luft tape on the jib is slightly larger than one would want. It does work and it does not affect the use of the jib. If your sail maker didn't check the luft on the furler that is not a Hanse issue nor a [my dealer’s name] issue.  This is between you and your sail maker.” 



-------------
"Kerkyra" 400e #042


Posted By: Stria
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 10:51
I agree with landlocked about the sloppy execution (due in some cases, IMO, to cost saving choices) of some details of the boat. (mine is a H400 e)
I add my 2 cents after one season of use:
- cockpit teak: very bad work at the sika edges and lots of rebonding needed (it's not a difficult-complicated job, but still...)
- companionway cover. Thats ridiculous: the hatch is blocked (i.e. it can not completely slide out of the rails , and rightly so, when you pull it) with a piece of wood at the back made of two parts screwed and glued together. If you pull a bit to close the hatch the screws detach, the glue lets go and you find yourself with the companionway hatch in your hands (and the companionway gelcoat ruined by the uncovered screws).
- Portholes: they still work  but in my opinion the lewmar hardware is very frail and sooner or later will have to be upgraded if you do some serious offshore cruising
- Cockpit shower, electric plug, various openings aft: the same applies. I'm considering to have some rubber plug-covers built on top of the actual plastic covers.
- Windlass: no comment. Mine broke down after having swallowed some rope and spat out a couple of nuts.

I don't mention loads of (small) problems reported in other posts. In short: lots of fine tuning needed. Great sailing boat, lots of fun no major problems yet, but (and it's a but) I hope that the main works (chainplates, deck-hull bonding,  transom hull bonding, curing etc...) were executed with more attention and control than the mentioned details. Otherwise...




Posted By: Eduard
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 21:05
By letter dated July 31, 2007 from the Dutch Hanse dealer I was informed that the hand over of my boat was still scheduled for Friday August 10, 2007. My wife already took the day off in order to be present at that very moment. Moreover we already had arranged people to drive back the car to our homeport and to take care of our son Vincent (age two), while my wife and I would do the maiden trip with our new boat.
Besides I would have started in the course of this month practicing short handed sailing with the new boat for a solo race which takes place as of the end of next month. In the meantime I had sold my previous boat, also taking into account that the new boat would be delivered in time.
No additional words are needed in order to express our deep dissappointment related to the unbelievable facts that that our sailing boat has been delivered in the beginning of July to the Dutch dealer without the necessary mast, rodkick and boom and that delivery of these items could take considerable time, as we have learnt.
On August 15 I have sent a letter (via e-mail) to the dealer, with a copy to the yard in Germany, in order to complain about the foregoing. Yesterday I have sent them a reminder; I am still waiting for an answer.
 
http://www.myhanse.com/uploads/20070823_210141_IMG_1118.JPG - uploads/20070823_210141_IMG_1118.JPG  
 
 


-------------
Ed

sy "Nimby" Hanse 342 #611 (2007); white hull, (one) wheel steering, Selden mast & boom, furlex 200S, deep draught, two cabins, traveller in cockpit, DSC VHF, inboard ap, B&G Zeus + Triton (2x)


Posted By: Bereklauw2
Date Posted: 05 September 2007 at 10:54
We bought our first Hanse 291 in 1994. It was one of the first Hanse built. The interior was not as one would expect. "Spartan" would be a friendly word. The price was smashing an unseen in that period. We decided to buy the boat without the interior, I did it myself in the next 2 winter seasons.

When the boat was delivered we noticed that first class materials had been used: Yanmar engine, Selden mast, Anderson winches etc. Inside the hull was fully in Topcoat. But the bulkheads were not quite in line, we could not reef, no mainsail traveler and everything was a bit undersized. We changed all of that in the later years.

But she sailed!

We sailed about 10000 miles over our inland lakes (IJsselmeer, Waddenzee) and Northsea. The boat proved to be very reliable, a strong and excellent construction no leaks or any problems with engine etc.

This year we decided to buy another boat. We looked at several other brands. But in spring I was polishing the hull. She was a bit dull after the previous summer and winter. The blue striping was fading a little. But after a good waxing all the shine came back, people commented and said she looked like new, and I thought: "what a very, very good boat they have built in Greifswald".

That's when we decided to buy a new Hanse 370. Last week I made the first trip. I was with a freelance skipper, the dealer hires frequently. He gave me a few tips:

"Loosen the boom and straighten the mast and the sail will go up by hand almost to the top", and it did.

The Yanmar engine ran smoothly and quietly. I sometimes had to listen carefully if it ran at all (difficult when starting the engine, you don't know if it is running).

We had to motor part of the way. We were doing slightly over 7 knots, 3200 rpm, and we didn't have any problem with the steering as some of you mentioned.

So far so good.

I will keep my fingers crossed for all that can possibly go wrong. I'm an engineer myself and learned that if anything can go wrong, it will.

Hanse will built excellent boats, but they need some extra attention afterwards. Some of the equipment will have to be replaced, some of the fitting will have to be redone, sometimes things can be improved. But also bear in mind that the boats are priced attractively. I.m.o. the value for money rate is very good.


-------------
Arwen, Hanse 370, #401, former owner of Mirage, Hanse 291. "Real men don't use bowthrusters!"


Posted By: silversailor
Date Posted: 06 September 2007 at 00:37
Bereklauw, you are absolutely correct.  A great sail boat.  Not perfect, but a real value.  An upgrade I suggest you consider is the Kiwi prop.  It will allow you to do 7K at probably 2800 RPM.

-------------
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
2010 Andrews 28


Posted By: John Guy
Date Posted: 08 September 2007 at 11:43
Hi Silver Sailor
I was interested to see that you get 7 knots with your Kiwi prop.  I must be doing something wrong since I have to push the motor hard to get more than 6.  At 2800, I get about 5.5.  Maybe the pitch is not right. 
John Guy 


-------------
John Guy


Posted By: tingeling
Date Posted: 17 September 2007 at 16:39
I really should have been reading this page before buying my Hanse 400. There has been a lot of small problems with my boat , and I understand also  others (not only me) find the local dealer to be of poor quality. It is unbelievable what kind of discussions and arguments I have had with the guy!
 This is just a list of problems I had with the demo-boat I bought privately form the local dealer.:
 
  • Both engine supports failed due to misaligned installation - major repair by authorized Yanmar shop
  • Misaligned installation og furniture in saloon - not fixed
  • Cooling box dropped 1,5 cm into the bench - fixed by dealer
  • Old instrument fitted - not fixed and denied
  • Wrong dimention on cockpitbenches - fixed by dealer
  • Wrong dimention on forward hatchcover - fixed by dealer
  • Switch for water heater incorrectly wired - fixed by me
  • Malfunctioning aft anchor winch - fixed by med
  • Incorrect quality of ropes for main and foresail halyard (polyester with enormous stretch)- refitted by me, denied by dealer
  • Stove fitted in wrong fixed angle - fixed by me
  • Leaking hatch in saloon - fixed by me.
  • Rust in water-heater, fixed by me
  • Loose hinges swimming ramp
  • Loose steering gear, also poorly adjusted autopilot
  • Heat from fridge compressor has deformed fridge. No access to compressor.
  • No speed and depthsensor under opening in floor, but next to and unavailable unless removed next floor plate.
  • Boat advertized with extra genoawinches, but came with only 4. That is extra winches according to the dealer.??
  • Etc. Etc.
 
There are other things as well not worth mentioning. My point is that there are a lot of minior and some major errors on  Hanse boats coming from the manufacturere/dealer. If this was a car, the dealer would instantly recalled the vehicle and fixed everything with a big excuse. But when it is a boat you have to struggle or do it yourself.
 
Should Hanse hire a guy to read these pages. I for sure should have read them, then I would not have been a Hanse owner now.
 
The rumour will spread. 
 
 


Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 17 September 2007 at 23:11
Tingeling,
You obviously have problems with your dealer.
Why not name him for all to see andwrite direct to Hanse to ask whether they think this person is a suitable agent. I am sure anyone thinking of buying a Hanse would like to know which agents to avoid and this guy sounds like one.
 Things like claiming 4 winches as "extra winches fitted is just fraudulent. However, in fairness, the factory fits stretchy halyards and elastic sails as standard, so this is not a dealer issue as such.
Not all the dealers are like this. The New Zealand dealer is absolutely fantastic. The boats have very few issues when delivered and anything that needs attention is dealt with within 24 hours of contacting him. He is also up front with things like the stretchy halyards and arranges to change these (at cost) prior to delivery.
I have alsoheard many complimentary comments about the Australian and UK dealers, so there is hope.
Cheers,
Hawkeye


Posted By: John Allison
Date Posted: 18 September 2007 at 10:22
It's great to see the open way we are all able to discuss issues with our Hanses on this forum, and think thats testimony enough for Hanse UK who put the site together and maintain it.
 
I too have had a few issues with our 461 but have to say, over 9,000 miles and three years, feel the quality has certainly exceeded that reported to me by other brands 'new boat' owners we've met with.
 
And even now, three years on, if we do have an issue we discuss it with hanse UK - and always find they come to the party - warranty expired or not.
 
Would I buy another Hanse?  Probably not as we're dialled into longer term cruising and if we want anything more, its increased tankage and a more sea kindly hull shape.
 
Would I recommend Hanse to any other.  100% yes - provided they purchased it via Hanse UK.
 
Cheers
 
JOHN


-------------
No longer a Hanse owner - but loved the one we had!


Posted By: tingeling
Date Posted: 18 September 2007 at 20:41
I am glad to hear that there are positive experiences with Hanse, and, yes, we are satisfied with the boat and its capabilities in speed and living on board.
 
Severeal quality issues and poor (sometimes stupid) dialogue with the dealer has put clouds over the experience.
 
I'll try to cheer up and feel happy for the boat and its positive sides.. Some of them are definately the sailing performance and the looks of the boat.
 
I wish for a better perfoming local dealer and remain a Hanse sailor for years to come...
 
Tingeling


Posted By: gshannon
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 04:47
I have a now 5 year old Hanse 371. It is basically strongly built and sails extremely well. I'm a yacht designer, and considered having a custom boat of my opn design built. But the design I came up with looked rather like a 371, had many of the same features and would have cost double.
 
Bearing in mind I knew I wasn't buying a Swan or Najad, the dealer (Freedom Marine in Vancouver BC) was helpful with the few problems encountered. Most small items were a result of poor quality control, and cost cutting on deck hardware. Major items were put right by Hanse, I fixed most of the small items myself (squeaking floorboards, poor quality blocks and halyards, etc.). The only leak is water getting from the chain locker into the compartment aft. I'll fix it myself sometime.
 
The original East Sails jib was rubbish, the main quite a bit better. I have replaced the jib with a high-tech sail from Elvstrom/Sobstad which cost a lot but sets superbly and has a greater area with vertical battened roach.
Unlike the battens in the original sail, they actually do something.
 
We have raced with a good degree of success and I can say that we are much faster than Catalinas and cruising Beneteaus and Jeanneaus of the same size and compete well with their racing First, Match and Sun Fast models. PHRF NW rating 128 (with 149% genoa and spinnaker).
 
I have decided to keep the 371 for a very long time, so I'm upgrading any items I find wanting. The Volvo 2030 has never missed a beat and is very quiet, but the rubber flap on the bottom had to be reglued, as it seems to happen on all of them. We get a maximum speed of 7.6 knots with the 2 blade folding prop. By the way, it came with a fixed prop and there was considerable rudder vibration under power, cured with the folding prop.
 
Would I buy another Hanse? Tough question. I love the 630...but realistically the 371 is the right size boat for me. I can't quite fall in love with the 370, the new interiors are too hard edged for me, although the exterior looks OK, and some improvements have been made.  So the answer is maybe. I definitely will NOT buy a Benehuntalina. If the budget would allow a Najad or Arcona would be nice.
 
On the whole I'm happy with my boat, and from what I here even the finest and most expensive boats have a LOT of teething troubles.


-------------
Grahame

Tangleberry 371-092

aviadesign.com


Posted By: elisabel
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 17:34
Grahame,
same experience. I'll fully agree with your report. The 371 is a good sailor and a money- worth boat. Why I should buy a new one?
Dietmar


Posted By: Clivian
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 22:19
We are on our 2nd Hanse
We had a 331 prior to our 371 - which I have to say, sails exceptionally well and is very comfortable to live aboard.
 
When we had our 331 - we had problems.
We never thought that we would be in a position to purchase a new boat - but went along to the boat show purely to look at what options were available  - we placed our order for the 331.
 
I need to point out here that the purchase was not with Hanse UK - there was another dealer at that time.
 
All I will say is what should have been a pleasurable time turned out to be rather distressing.
 
Bring in Peter Thomas - he was great, the boat sorted and 5 years of happy sailing.
 
I totally agree with Johns comment re Hanse UK - that is why we decided to go for the 371 and Hanse UK were excellent and continue to be.
 
If you have any queries or concerns - they are more than happy to speak /meet with you and if you go to the boat show - they seem to know all of there customers.
I wonder how many other dealers can lay claim to that.....
 
So would we by another Hanse - yes we would (but next time we would need to have won the lottery!!!LOL)
 
Sue Wink
 
 
 
 


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 22 October 2007 at 02:14
hi all,
i finally got my boat a hanse 315#0694 last friday(one of the last few i suspect).
 
motor sailed it back to my marina and tested out all of the equipment.
 
in my previous messages i was a bit(make that a lot) concerned in the finishing of the hanse as some of the stories i read made it down right sleepless for me on whether i chose the right boat. other choices i considered before deciding were hunter 31 or 33, ben 343, c&c 99, jen 32i, bav 30 and the duf 325.
 
i would like to report that all is well.
 
it is easy to set up the hanse 315, all the equipment i ordered seem to be working.
 
2 things that were not right :
 
the simrad wind meter does not seem to work, i don't seem to be able to get it started even after reading the manual(there is power). maybe someone here can help.
 
the factory also did not install the wp32 autopilot. and i just found out that this model is obsolete.
 
good news follows:
 
otherwise the boat is fantastic !! so easy to drive and accelerates well out of tacks. downwind in about 15kts we were doing 7kts with only the mainsail up. jib was not filling and sliding around and was eventually furled. 
 
external finish is very good(my standards) and i am really happy.
 
i compare the interior of similar size boats and cannot complain about the finish in the interior of my hanse. it is to me much better than ben/hun/bav types. so were the comments i got from a party i threw for the weekend on the boat(although they may have been trying to be nice with the wine and cheese my wife was serving).
 
lastly i would like to add that the boat sailed quickly in 3-8kts. i have the original sails and we had 3 windward leeward races. our boat was sailed 2-handed and we won all 3 races over the line and in club handicap. what a weekend to remember for me. note that only 4 boats took part...sad normally we have 10-15 boats take part. but we had the 2005/6 , 2004 champion boat and the current series leading boat for competition. our hanse315 finished between 5 to 10minutes ahead in 25-48 minutes of racing. other boats were hunter 326, ericson 28 and a maxi 77.
 
other the small hiccup regarding the electronics, that my agent is willing to resolve, i can easily recommend a hanse.
 
leslie
TODAK 2


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: Alain & Anne
Date Posted: 22 October 2007 at 08:00
Hi Les40

To get the wind meter working you probably have to make a factory reset when all the simnet wires are connected




-------------
UHAMBO 430e#004
White hull-teck deck-Yanmar 55hp-long range cruising
OCC

Our blog: www.uhambo.fr



Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 26 October 2007 at 09:02
Originally posted by Alain & Anne Alain & Anne wrote:

Hi Les40

To get the wind meter working you probably have to make a factory reset when all the simnet wires are connected


 
i've re read the manual again. but there does not seem to be anything inside to tell me how to start the wind meterEmbarrassed. i have also requested same information at local simrad agent and the hanse agent and so far....
silence?! cannot understand why.
 
i have  the depth/log and the wind, the depth/log is working fine.
 
Alain and Anne, can you tell me what is a factory reset?
 
leslie


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: Tomas
Date Posted: 26 October 2007 at 09:41
Hi All,
 
When you use the "Factory reset" the unit will be as the first time it was turned on. (all the waypoints, routes and other things will be deleted)
 
It could be a hardware fault in the wind transducer.
But I would try a "Globel reset of the SIMNET". That will probably help.
 
Tomas Smile


Posted By: james
Date Posted: 26 October 2007 at 12:06

Hi

The wind I presume is an IS12? The display unit needs to know there is a Mast head transducer to talk to! You need to press and hold the illumination button during power up of the system. This is a local reset and should not affect the rest of the system
James  


Posted By: les40
Date Posted: 27 October 2007 at 14:48
thanks to all who replied,
i got the wind meter to work from james' tip, special thanks to you, james.
leslie


-------------
TODAK 2


Posted By: Andis
Date Posted: 29 October 2007 at 15:10
Hi all.
 
As others, I've somewhat mixed experience with my Hanse dealer. Collecting my new 370 in Greifswald early August, I found it finished in dark blue, not light grey as ordered (as mentioned in another forum)! Surely some of you may think that blue is i great colour, but that's beside the point, for a reason we ordered it light grey.
After a period with dealer not even answering my e-mail, eventually I'm happy to say that they admitted to have delt poorly with the matter, and we seem to have found a solution both parts can live with.
They also seemed to be keen to deal with the the other minor(?) problems that we have discovered during the first 2 months of sailing, much the same kind of problems discussed allready on these pages.
Appearently they have a new guy dealing with aftermarket service, let's hope it will lead to an improvement?
 


-------------
S/Y Anne-Ma, Hanse 370 2007


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 30 October 2007 at 22:45
Eventually I have decided to hire a lawyer to make sure all the problems with my boat will be solved.

I am really sad that it had to come to this, as well as I am dissappointed that the purchase of the boat of my dreams has become an every-day-fight for the last two years.

I don't feel I can go into details at this moment, so please believe me when I say that the problems I have had are substantial.

Johan Hackman
Stockholm
Sweden



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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 30 October 2007 at 22:56
Wow Johan, I'm sorry that you had to get to this point. You're a very reasonable individual and I'm sure this step wasn't taken lightly. I hope it is successful for you in resolving things.
 
Steve


Posted By: svrocinante
Date Posted: 01 December 2007 at 18:36

Well folks, time for an update on our Hanse.

A few months ago, someone, on one of the other boards, asked if I would do it again (i.e. buy a Hanse)...
 
So setting emotions aside, we chose and purchased the Hanse for several key reasons:
-it's sailing reputation
-structural integrity
-interior layout and
-storage space 
We are very happy with the Hanse 400e in each of those areas.
  • She sails beautifully!
  • Extrapolating from our limited experience so far, she seems to be able to take a pounding (although she hasn't been truly tested)
  • The interior layout is great for a cruising couple... we spent a bit over 7 months on board both at anchor (3+weeks straight) and at marinas and have found it to be very comfortable with lots of usable space.

    We've yet to see a boat with better storage than ours... ignoring the sheer volume of storage, the most important aspect for us, is that she is not cluttered... we have plenty of enclosed cabinet space for all of the things we need at any given time and it is all easily accessible.

So in conclusion, assuming Hanse corrects the various problems we would be very enthusiastic owners and would certainly do it again...

 
.
.
.
 
Well, I got a call on or about October 13th that all work had been completed.  This past Monday I drove down to move our Hanse... it's spending this winter on the hard Cry 
 
I just got back from Annapolis and it seems that Hanse / Annapolis Sailyard has corrected the various problems :
  • They removed the old reefer unit and installed a new unit behind the settee and new thermostat that is not inside the freezer… what a concept… even the little wire basket slides in and out as it should!

  • They replaced my galvanized anchor chain with stainless chain... don’t know that I buy it as a final solution for a poor design, but I’ve got to give them credit!
    I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it for myself, but I let out and retrieved a good 80-100ft and it worked flawlessly!

  • They replaced the furling unit (new drum & swivel), haven’t really tested it yet, but at least they replaced it…

  • They replaced the dinged cabinet door with a new one… Yep, it even matches its mate!

  • I received a letter from Sparcraft and Hanse confirming that: “All the riggings are made with terminals manufactured in Denmark, cables manufactured in Germany and stainless steel blocks manufactured in Sweden.” In essence, they’ve conveyed that the rust is simply surface rust (my words); that it only required a simple cleaning and that “The structural integrity of the rigging will not be affected by this” … so guess I’m OK.

  • My starboard lifeline Gate was replaced and works properly.

  • Squeaking cabin sole… well, it’s not squeaking now, but I think that will be something I’ll have to figure out in the long run.

So, I guess that means that we are very enthusiastic owners and would certainly do it again!
 
Happy Holidays folks,
Carlos & Maria
SV Rocinante
 

 


-------------
you may not be able to control the wind,
but you can adjust your sails

http://www.myinternetdoorman.com - My Internet Doorman -The easiest way to keep porn out of your home...Guaranteed!™


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 02 December 2007 at 23:27
Carlos and Maria,

I am glad to hear that your problems seem to be sorted to satisfaction. You look like very happy in the picture, and I think every Hanse owner should look like that.

My own boat has been at a yard for more than a month but since new problems have been discovered I am not sure when I will be able to sail her back home. Unlike most Swedes I keep my boat in the water during the winter to extend the sailing season and me and my family live aboard from time to time when the water is frozen. I hope that the boat will be put back in the water so I can get back before Christmas.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: lukemi
Date Posted: 03 December 2007 at 14:12

Carlos,

I am glad to see that most Items have worked to your satisfaction. This thread has certainly had a life of it's own. It has made many of the Hanse owner's evaluate all aspects of their Hanse purchase. In my case, being a relatively new boat owner, it gave me an idea of items that should be reviewed. Luckly I did not have the extent of issues you had with my purchase but I have been back to Scott E. to review a few of the items you had mentioned in this post. He was fairly receptive to review of my requests. I am sure that your issues made Sailyard review their after sails support for Hanse products. I do feel my interface has improved with Sailyard over the past year. Like the picture and gives a little festive seasonal accent to these posts.

Mike
Stella Maris 370e#166


Posted By: silversailor
Date Posted: 09 December 2007 at 19:48
Carlos and Maria, 

As the owner of the 1st Hanse 370 imported into the US I'm pleased to see that Hanse and your dealer have "stepped up" and solved most if not all of your problems.  As far as the squeaky cabin sole is concerned, I have that problem too, but find that it is saeonal.  Only occurs when the weather gets warm and more humid.  The tight boards expend slightly and that creates the squeak.  Solution... remove boards and sand edges slightly.  I suggest adding some candle wax to the edges as well.

After sailing my H370e for 2 seasons, I know that you will enjoy your Hanse.


-------------
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
2010 Andrews 28


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 20 December 2007 at 19:44
After a month and a half at a boat yard I got my boat back yesterday, just a few days before Christmas. When I was filing my complaints in July I was hoping that the issues would be fixed in September. When I realised that it wouldn't happen I hired the lawyer and we have been working alongside on the matter almost daily.

Now, some of the issues have been dealt with in a very professional way and can be ticked off from the list right away. Some have been dealt with but not solved and some have not been dealt with at all, and there has been a new one along the way.

The "new one" is the rudder which I have written about in another thread.

The electric bilge pump was replaced with a similar one that proved not to work either.

A crack in the gelcoat by the shroud fitting re-appeared when the mast was put back. This time it was three times bigger than before.

When the new rudder was mounted someone forgot that the tiller and the blade must be in line with each other. To steer a straight course I have to turn the tiller approximately five degrees to starboard. The picture below shows the boat on such a course.

Johan





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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 22:44
Below is a picture from when I left the boat yard. I had to motor through the ice. If you look closely you will see that the tiller and the blade are not aligned. When the photo was taken (by my wife with her mobile) I was not yet aware of that problem.

Johan



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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: bjoris
Date Posted: 29 December 2007 at 21:56

I agree this was not impressiv work, but is it not easy to fix your self?



Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 29 December 2007 at 23:16
Well, I am working on why the bilge pump doesn't work. I am spending a lot of time to do a lot of research within an area that is not my profession. The theory for the time beeing is that the hose is too long for the size of pump.

The crack in the gelcoat by the shroud deck fitting has been repaired three times now. Last time the mast was taken off and I thought that this would mean that they would find the cause and not just fill it out with more gelcoat. I don't see how I could do any professional work on it myself. The mast has to be taken down again.

Aligning the rudder with the tiller only involves loosing the screws on the tiller head, but since the tiller head is the only thing preventing the rudder from dropping I could not do it myself. With a couple of friends helping me maybe, and if so, with the boat in shallow waters. The best way to make sure it is done correctly is to have the boat lifted. I don't want to dive to pick up a rudder that has sunk.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: bjoris
Date Posted: 30 December 2007 at 09:34
Originally posted by Johan Hackman Johan Hackman wrote:

Well, I am working on why the bilge pump doesn't work. I am spending a lot of time to do a lot of research within an area that is not my profession. The theory for the time beeing is that the hose is too long for the size of pump.

The crack in the gelcoat by the shroud deck fitting has been repaired three times now. Last time the mast was taken off and I thought that this would mean that they would find the cause and not just fill it out with more gelcoat. I don't see how I could do any professional work on it myself. The mast has to be taken down again.

Aligning the rudder with the tiller only involves loosing the screws on the tiller head, but since the tiller head is the only thing preventing the rudder from dropping I could not do it myself. With a couple of friends helping me maybe, and if so, with the boat in shallow waters. The best way to make sure it is done correctly is to have the boat lifted. I don't want to dive to pick up a rudder that has sunk.

Johan
 
Sorry, I was only thinking about the aligning of the rudder, but I understand if there is a risk for it to fall of it is best not doing anything, if you do it might be used against your case later also. Well, good luck and it is just sad to see that you have had all this trouble with your nice boat...


Posted By: tingeling
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 10:29
Dear Hanse-factory and dealers!
 
I am shocked to see how meny problems of the same kind people have. I have earlier listed on this forum my frustrations, and by revisiting the forum I find the same things going on and on also for new owners.
 
You guys simply have to improve!!!!
 
The way quality issues are dealt with by the factory and repairs and response by many of the dealers are just not by far good enough.
 
I fear very poor second hand prices for Hanse boats as the poor quality and poor service from factory and dealers  gradually becomes widely known.
 
Yoy can not only rely on nice design, good speed and flexible interiors to build your BRAND. There has got to be quality involved.
 
I suggest you make a reservation in your 2007 accounts for repairs to all these unhappy customers. And add to your organisation some people to deal with Customer Satisfaction and Quality Issues.
 
I wish you the best luck, but frankly I have started to doubt wether you are really seriously interested in building a long term quality brand.
 
BR
 
Tingeling
 
PS: Does some of you guys at the factory read this Forum?? It doesn't look that way.
 
T


Posted By: Webmaster
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:03

Guys

I would like us to be careful here. The way some replies have been written gives the impression that myHanse is a way of speaking to the factory. While I would hope that Hanse Germany do look at the forum I can not say they 100% do (I honestly do not know!). You also have to remember that myHanse is not run by Hanse Germany and that there are other forums and sites out there.

The idea behind the forum was for owners to speak to other owners and was never really for owners to talk to the factory. That is something that should really be done through the dealers and then passed on to Germany.

I am a bit worried that we are getting away from the original "Talking about Hanse" to using the forum as a public way of shaming some dealers who maybe do not represent the brand as a whole. I think it is important that we all use the correct way of communicating these problems to dealers and do not turn myHanse simply into a moan about dealers / Hanse Germany. There needs to be value in posts that will help other Hanse owners.

Thanks,

Jonathan

myHanse.com


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:14
I have talked extensively over the past two years to my dealer, the Swedish agent and to Hanse Germany and what has that lead to? In my case - the need for a lawyer!

I think myHanse is a great place to make it publicly known, both to owners, prospective buyers and producers, that there is something amiss with the quality level.

Johan Hackman

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Webmaster
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:40
Hi Johan,
 
It is fair enough I think to share your experiance as you have done, it is the "Dear Hanse Dealers / Factory" that I am not that keen on. They servce little value to other owners. I am resesting the urge to delete the post at the moment.
 
Jonathan
myHanse.com


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:44
Jonathan, don't make the mistake to delete any posts. It will only make things worse.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: JofB
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:47
I quite understand that this is a site (and a very useful forum indeed) that is generously run by Hanse UK for the benefit of all users, wherever they may be worldwide now, it seems, and that it is not related to the factory itself.  I very much doubt that there are any equivalent arrangements with other makes of boat that would permit such frank and open criticism as well as praise and good news stories and we should all be very grateful that the site exists as it does.
That said, I am sure that we all sincerely hope that the factory are well aware of the huge volume of really useful feedback and comment, positive as well as negative, that the site generates and feel that they would be very foolish indeed to ignore the site as they currently seem to do. 
It would be very reassuring for everyone if there was the occasional comment / reply from the factory to demonstrate that they are working on some of the problems / suggestions and how they are addressing the criticisms related to quality control in particular.  There are also some excellent ideas for product development that they could/should be picking up on, building on the experience gained from hundreds of users over many months and years.
We all love our boats but no-one (builder, dealer or owner) wants to see Hanse developing a poor reputation for quality and penny-pinching.
Is it too much to hope for some input from the factory in Germany - as it is a public company now, I suspect that the shareholders would very much like to see full advantage being taken of such an opportunity of improving both the product and PR with existing and prospective owners


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Jof
400e #31 - Grey Goose


Posted By: Webmaster
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:54
Hi Jof
 
I understand what you say about the factory. I think the problem comes that if the factory did start to reply where would they start and stop. As myHanse is now owners talk to owners and the factory may read them. If the factory started to post then people would start to expect them to get involved and then myHanse would become a owners to factory site.
 
Thanks for your momments.
 
Jonathan
myHanse.com


Posted By: tingeling
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 16:02
Originally posted by Webmaster Webmaster wrote:

Hi Johan,
 
It is fair enough I think to share your experiance as you have done, it is the "Dear Hanse Dealers / Factory" that I am not that keen on. They servce little value to other owners. I am resesting the urge to delete the post at the moment.
 
Jonathan
myHanse.com
 
 
Well, Webmaster, I am the guy to blame here, as I used the myHanse.com to adress Hanse and some dealers.
 
I enjoy reading the ideas and hints on the forum, and find the site very usefull.
 
I am therefore not going to raise my voice to provoce anybody anymore......just read-not write..at least not critical.
 
Happy New year
 
Tingeling
 
 
 


Posted By: marcust
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 17:00
Regardless of what this forum was designed for, Hanse Germany are missing a golden opportunity by not participating here.  A community such as this is gold dust for a company.  Sadly it seems Hanse Germany have not realised its value and I find it disappointing that they do not get involved. 


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Marcus Tettmar

http://www.mjtnet.com/" rel="nofollow - Macro Recorder & Windows Automation Tools. Automate your business so YOU can go sailing. We'll show you how.


Posted By: JofB
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 17:31
Hi, Jonathan,
I completely agree that this is not the place to deal with specific problems or particular cases - that should be done by the local dealer perhaps working with Hanse Germany as necessary.
My point was that by at least showing, even occasionally, that they were aware of the repeated key issues raised in the forums (or even just appreciated some of the positive feedback and suggestions as a base from which to develop the boats in future), they would do themselves a major favour and reassure all their customers at the same time.  In the long run, they need us owners and prospective owners more than we need them - a bad reputation will only lead to the customers voting with their money elsewhere.  That would be devastating for their business (not to mention denting the resale value of our boats!)


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Jof
400e #31 - Grey Goose


Posted By: Stria
Date Posted: 04 January 2008 at 18:41
Hi Jonathan,
the reason why this forum is invaluable for Hanse owners and perspective owners is that there is no censorship and griping is freely allowed. I myself, though I like my boat very much and consider her real good value, have been  “saved” a few times by hints found here. I only mention my recent re-sealing of the anchor lock discharge pipe (a check which I strongly suggest to all of us). On the other end I understand that some complaints can come from lack of experience or  simple mistake, and I do appreciate the narrow path threaded by a dealer like you of Hanse Uk (great professionals btw Imho).
In general, though, I think that mistaken/unfounded complaints usually get corrected soon by other forum members (isn’t this the Net?), and I strongly feel that Hanse Germany should pay more attention and publicly respond with words and facts to what of relevant is found written here. This would help the factory to ensure a better, and somewhat even cheaper, quality control. As everyone of us –boat owners, dealers and, I suspect, even Hanse executives- knows, such a control is strongly needed and sometimes overdue.
Cheers
Jacopo
s/v Stria Hanse 400e



Posted By: Webmaster
Date Posted: 05 January 2008 at 19:16

Hi Guys,

I should start by saying that I don’t work for Hanse UK and am just the Webmaster for the various websites that they run.

The reason myHanse.com was setup was to allow owners to communicate with each other, talk about boats and organise events if they wanted in the UK. It was never designed or intended as a way for owners to communicate with either dealers or the factory. As you all probably know the site has moved on from this now and looking at the statistics for the last month the majority of the traffic comes from other parts of Europe.

While the factory may or may not chose to read myHanse (I have to say that I don’t know if they do or do not) we need to remember that they do have in place a system for dealing with customer issues - through dealers. That this is the method they have chosen and feel is appropriate. If the Hanse factory visited the site I would understand why they would not get involved as they have chosen the dealer model and do not deal directly with customers (this is common for example with Cars). Also if the factory did start to respond - who would they choose to respond to and who not to respond to. Everyone would expect the definitive answer from Hanse Germany and the forum would lose its owner to owner interaction which is the reason it was setup for.

At the end of the day we have to remember that myHanse is paid for by Hanse UK and at this moment in time they have chosen not to moderate it in any way.

I am going to lock this thread now as we have really gone off topic as to its origins (partly my fault).

Jonathan
myHanse.com




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