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Red Ensign and Brexit

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richz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 December 2017 at 18:42
Hi All,

Is anyone looking into what could happen to a British flagged yacht owned by a EU citizen sailing (permanently) in a EU country?
The EU VAT has been paid in a EU Country (Germany).

Is it better to de register from Part I and register locally (I.e. in a EU Country) or would it be better not to bother considering that the VAT has been paid?


Kale Kale - H345 #112

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 08:17
I suspect it is not just VAT that is the issue. Presumably you will be treated as a non EU visitor in the same way that, say, a USA flagged vessel is now. How do they get on?

Although, perhaps now one D Trump is president,  the USA might not be a good example, especially the further east one goes Confused
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 11:03
Ciao Rich,

the situation is not (yet) clear. It all depends how the future relationship/ frame agreement with the glorious British empire concerning traffic by land, sea and air  will be drafted. I would wait and use the time within the next 12 months to work out and prepare a Plan B. For the time being you should be fine.
If Sam is right, then a local flag would become a Must.
Seasons greetings



Edited by Fendant - 09 December 2017 at 11:04
Frank
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richz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 15:08
Hi Frank,

Buone Feste anche a te!
I think you are right and everything will really depend on how the Brexit will pan out eventually.
I was just wondering if anyone is in my same position and what considerations they have made.

So let’s assume a hard Brexit (i.e. worst case scenario), my boat would be treated as a non EU boat and after 18 months 1) I, being EU resident, should be required to register it locally (i.e. in one of the EU countries). Or shouldn’t I?

2) VAT should not be the issue as I have already paid it. Or is it?

If answer to question number 1) is yes, I have to register locally (irrespective of whether VAT is paid or not) then I need to choose the best register within the EU countries (Belgium, Netherland?).
As per the VAT situation, my concern is that after Brexit my boat is becoming an extra EU one and then if I want to import it back to EU area VAT is due again.

There are so many moving parts that I am going nuts!






Kale Kale - H345 #112

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 15:30
May I ask why you are not flagged under your own country of origin?
Most would be proud of their country's flag.!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 23:11
Easy: I lived the last 10 years in UK and I have just moved back to Italy.
Italian register and rules are a bit of a nightmare (like you need to have on board only government approved safety kit which is more expensive and less effective than other usually available in Europe).
Kale Kale - H345 #112

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2017 at 08:20
Rich,
 
I don't envy you. Fortunately the hull length of the 345 is 9.99 m, so you are just under the Italian 10 m Limit.
 
I don't know the regulation in BE or NED. However in Germany you need to watch the inspection intervals for example for the gas Installation, safety equipment , radio licence. Most of These inspections can only be carried out by personnel who have a inspection license, issued by the flag country. This documentation is also a insurance requirement, where it is stated that it is your duty to carry out the inpsections in the required intervals. I am sure that you do not wish to fly in a Dutch inspector on your dime.
 
I know that RINA is often a pain in the ....., but it might be the lesser evil.
 
Good Luck
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2017 at 10:18
Originally posted by richz richz wrote:

Easy: I lived the last 10 years in UK and I have just moved back to Italy.
Italian register and rules are a bit of a nightmare (like you need to have on board only government approved safety kit which is more expensive and less effective than other usually available in Europe).


So it is nothing to do with the British ensign. What you are really trying to do is dodge the rules of your own country. That is the real issue - isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2017 at 11:37
Thank you Frank.
RINA is not really scaring me.
Boarding a liferaft with branded mineral water and other nonsense as requested under the Italian flag is really bothering me.
Kale Kale - H345 #112

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2017 at 11:45
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

Originally posted by richz richz wrote:

Easy: I lived the last 10 years in UK and I have just moved back to Italy.
Italian register and rules are a bit of a nightmare (like you need to have on board only government approved safety kit which is more expensive and less effective than other usually available in Europe).


So it is nothing to do with the British ensign. What you are really trying to do is dodge the rules of your own country. That is the real issue - isn't it?


Haha Samuel!
I am Canadian and EU passported. Currently living in Italy. I lived in the UK for the last 10 years and it was easier to get the red duster, without dodging any rule.
Now that the UK is leaving the EU that choice might not be the right one. And so I am trying to advise from who have a better idea.
Kale Kale - H345 #112

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