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Reefing wind speed

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Dion View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 October 2017
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    Posted: 29 October 2017 at 09:43
Hello everyone
My first question off many to follow I am sure is in regards to reefing my Hanse 320
The boat has the original main sail and a new self racking jib . The problem I am having is that once the apparent wind is above 15 knots with full sail the boat will round up and the rudder will loose grip . The boat will go thorough the wind rudder gets grip again and the process will repeat . The obvious solution to me would have been to reef the main That we did try and made minor difference with one reef With two reefs the problem goes away up to 19 knots apparent wind .However at 20 knots the rail will go under water
What we did try yesterday was to sail with out the jib and the boat will heal only 10 degrees and no problems with one reef and 19 knots apparent Then we tried with some jib rolled out and got to a reasonable balance .
The problem is that the solution does not make sense To me if the boat is rounding up is the main that overpowers the jib Somehow it seems not to work as such on my boat. Could any owners of H320 share their experience Just to confirm that the main is in good condition, hold the shape well and can be flatten sufficiently for the wind
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2017 at 17:58
The first thing I did when I bought my 341 was to have a third reef put in the mainsail and a proper 3rd reef system set up as Hanse have big mains.  I ran the leech reefing lines through Harken air blocks and the 3rd pulley is attached to the leech cringle using a large soft shackle that I made up.  So if the winds are light I can disconnect the 3rd reef leech line and this reduces the amount of line that drops in to the cockpit when you are lowering the sail.  

If we are beating and the wind starts to get up, I tend to go to 2 reefs straight away.  I will go to a main with 3 reefs in it, before I start to furl the jib.    
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout & shallow keel, normally based in Scotland
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Undine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Undine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2017 at 01:30
Hi i have a 455 & find that by winding the backstay on more this flattens the main de powering the sail reducing heel, thus no need to reef until about 24 knots.
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2017 at 08:31
That should not happen at all. Are you really certain that the main is in good condition?
I would suggest that you look at rig set up.
I had problems with a heavy rudder & solved much of it by adjusting mast rake. I had the mast tip moved forward 400mm by having the forestay adjusted. then I looked at tension. 25% uppers, 18-20% mids 15% lowers to get 50mm pre bend. Then I increased the backstay purchase to 32:1 to make tension easier so I could flatten the main a bit.
Then I bought a new mainsail - that was the biggest difference.
If the water is flat you should not be looking to reef the main (with ST jib) until 20-21Kts.
But if you are out in the Fishermans Gat in a 1 metre chop then you will be putting the reef in at 17 kts & the second one at 21kts. That still should not be putting the decks awash which is why I query the state of the mainsail. If you have a cunninham eye then perhaps you should use it.
I have 3 reefs but although I have been in numerous F8's I have never used No 3 & rarely furled the ST upwind although my latest ST is a laminate & that is a bit of a handful whereas my earlier dacron ST's were less powerful & could be used unfurled in very strong winds.
I also find that unlike a lot of boats i do not sheet my main in so tight. The boom sits well out, not in the centreline like a lot of setups. I do have a traveler so I can bring it in if I want. I still point every bit as high as boats of similar size. Higher in most cases. It just suits my set up & balance


Edited by samuel - 30 October 2017 at 08:47
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Old Racer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:32
We have a 320 with a short keel and do not experience the problems you describe.
We sail double handed and have over the years worked out our most comfortable sailing is to put in the first reef at 14/15 knots and the second at 18/19knots. If the sea is flat we may up those figures.
We would also play the main a bit more and certainly let it out.
 
One other aspect could be the angle you are sailing at. As my name suggests we were always trying to get the boat to point. Most if not all the polar diagrams show Hanse boats sailing at 40 degrees up wind. We sailed at 35 and when we went to 40 we found the boat tracked a lot better.
 
 
Hanse 320 Olicana Inverkip Scotland
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Janni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Janni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2017 at 10:41
We got our 320 with the Dacron Sails which did not have much of a profile. 
We replaced the Jib after the first season and the main after the second season and got EPEX sails. 
This has put the reef point up from 14 knots AWS to 17 knot AWS für reef 1. 
In addition, we asked the sailmaker for a third reef. He instead suggested to put reef 1 in between the usual reef 1 and reef 2 reefs and to put reef 2 where you usually find reef 3. We accepted and are more than happy with it. 
With our new sails, we are have less heeling and a better speed. 
In addition, we still work to optimize trim. 
Jan
Hanse 320 #548 "SCHNEGGE"
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Pieterman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pieterman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2017 at 18:28
Dion, like Samuel wrote, it is possible to sail close-hauled in heavier winds if you do not tighten the main jib to the maximum. In combination with a tight outhaul, a normal main halyard tension and a tight backstay, this should do the job (unreefed, with first reef and with second reef). When really to much, I start sailing less close-hauled... :-)

That's an interesting idea Jan, to change the location of the two reefs instead of adding a third. I am glad to read you are more than happy with it en I will certainly keep this in mind when ordering a new main.
For now, I will ask the sailmaker to put in a third reef in the main sail this winter. The two reefing lines will stay in place for the most used first and second reef, and when neccesary to put the third reef, I will use ropes. Or are there any other ideas for a third reef?



Edited by Pieterman - 31 October 2017 at 18:40
Pieterman
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Dion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2017 at 09:35
Thank you for all your replies
At 19kn AWS we completely furled the ST The boat speed reduced from 5.5 to 3.5 kn Heel was reduced from 35 to 5 degrees
When I had the new job made in July I also had the main modified as it was rubbing on the back stay They confirmed that it was at a reasonable state
I can flatten the main well and control the draught to about 35% Shape seems to be good
I will get a tensioning gauge and check the rig tension The mast was replaced just before I bought the boat so it is possible that the y have set it wrong
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2017 at 19:04
At 20-23 Kts of wind upwind in flattish water with  2 reefs & the ST jib you should be looking at 6kts with 6.5 kts if you get it right. That is through the water & without any tidal effect, & pointing quite high.
I would suggest that there is something wrong with your set up. Although I have a 31, I am sure that other 320s can do better than you are getting
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Scotchmist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotchmist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2017 at 14:07
As a matter of interest have you got the long or short rudder. There was a time when for some reason Hanse fitted short rudders (usually intended for shallow draft versions) to standard keeled boats. Obviously the short rudder will loose grip sooner than a long rudder. 
Andrew

Scotch Mischief Dehler 38 by Hanse
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