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Simnet, NMEA2000 and SeatalkNG

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mystudio View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 August 2018 at 08:58
Did anyonme managed to connect a Seatalk NG network to the Simnet network? And how?

This is the case

I do have a Simnet network in the Hanse for the sensors (wind, depth) and two Simrad IS 20 displays (wind and Multi display). Now I have a Raymarine E7 hybridtouch display, which has connections for Seatalk NG and NMEA2000. However, it's on a Seatalk NG backbone, because there is  a Raymarine autopilot also connected. (ACU200 with P70s)

So, it would be great if I could connect these two networks together, and have wind information on my Seatalk NG network. That would be an advantage for the E7, which could display wind info in that case and the P70, which ideally also needs the wind information. 

Has anyone managed this setup already? 

(p.s. I'm aware that Simnet is in fact a NMEA2000 network and Seatalk NG is in fact a NMEA2000 network, however, both use own connectors. Just connect the Simnet backbone to the Seatalk NG network probably won't do, you can't connect two backbones as far as I know)
Hanse 320|#004|Jefa steering |Jefa DD1 drive|Raymarine EV-2 with P70|Raymarine E7 |B&G Triton1 Multi displays|Lewmar size 2 traveller|Dyneema|Flexofold|
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2018 at 09:05
Can you redesign the two separate networks so you only have one backbone?  I am not an expert but I understand that you would need a terminator at each end of the backbone.  The masthead instrument usually acts as as a terminator. You would also need a single power connector for the network.
H385 #351 Ningaloo UK south coast (2018)
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mystudio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mystudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2018 at 09:21
Not sure. That means that I would have to replace the cabling of every sensor to NMEA2000. So, coming from the mast the Simnet connector should be extended by an NMEA2000 cable. The depth- and speedtransducer should be extended by NMEA2000 cabling and all NMEA2000 should go to the meters and go back to Simnet because the meters are Simnet connectors only. Furthermore, the SeatalkNG backbone should be replaced by NMEA2000 and again every connection should be made by a conversion cable to SeatalkNG, because that's what the Raymarine stuff is eating. 

Ideally, there should be a device where Simnet, NMEA2000 and SeatalkNG connections come in (all a kind of NMEA2000, but different connectors) and output senteces can be extracted in again all those formats. 
Hanse 320|#004|Jefa steering |Jefa DD1 drive|Raymarine EV-2 with P70|Raymarine E7 |B&G Triton1 Multi displays|Lewmar size 2 traveller|Dyneema|Flexofold|
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2018 at 10:54
I don't think that the cables need to be changed if both the networks run on NMEA2000 protocol.  The different devices may use different connectors and each of these will put data onto the network which is then available by any other device on the network.  
The important thing is to have a single backbone starting and ending with a terminator and having a single 12V power connection.  Each device should connect direct to the backbone (via drop cables).
N2K is not like NMEA0183 where you needed multiplexors to blend data from multiple devices - any device and consume data from any other device on the same network.

I think you need a multi-connector like the one shown below (or maybe using micro-C connectors) inserted somewhere into your Simnet then take one Simnet to SeaTalk drop cable to your plotter and another to the autopilot.





Edited by S&J - 14 August 2018 at 12:07
H385 #351 Ningaloo UK south coast (2018)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 20:43
Mystudio - this is entirely possible.  I've bridged the Simnet to SeaTalkNG on Grey Goose for similar reasons.  Many how to guides around but the diagrams on Panbo's forum gave me a good start (http://www.panbo.com/n2k-cable-mixing-not-a-big-woop/ ).  

 I could have used 'field install' micro-C connectors etc but I had a spare short Simnet cable and short SeaTalkNG so just cut them and got out the soldering iron.  Carefully rewrapped the various protective wrappings and used some sealant to create a solid result.  

 Just plug one end into a Simnet connection and the other into SeatalkNG.  You need a little care over network termination, so ideally make this connection between the 2 network ends.  That said I have got away with making the SeatalkNG gear a simple spur from Simnet.  However, it depends a lot on the particular circumstances on your boat.  Connect between network ends is the 'approved' approach that will work every time.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mystudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 20:43
Hi Mark,

Thx for your reaction. So, you did extend the backbone Seatalk NG to a Simnet spur cable or did you connect a SeatalkNG spur to a Simnet spur cable? 

I can imagine it probably could work if you extend the SeatalkNG into the Simnet network, so, my first try would be to use a SeatalkNG backbone cable to a Simnet cable and remove the terminator on the one end of the SeatalkNG network. Agreed?  
Hanse 320|#004|Jefa steering |Jefa DD1 drive|Raymarine EV-2 with P70|Raymarine E7 |B&G Triton1 Multi displays|Lewmar size 2 traveller|Dyneema|Flexofold|
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2018 at 22:30
Hi Mystudio - I was able to get away with the SeatalkNG as a spur from the simnet backbone. So I have terminators at either end of the simnet instrument/autopilot backbone (red power connector at one end and windvane at the other). The Raymarine plotter and GPS are on the spur and one or the other probably has a built in terminator. However, I just plugged it together to trial it and it all behaved so I never saw a need to rearrange things. You can’t do damage by trying it. It’s really all just a variation of a 10BaseT networking standards ‘from yesteryear’.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2018 at 08:26
NMEA 2000 is based on the automotive SAE J1939 high-level protocol, but defines its own messages.  Physical level is CAN. Exaclty as in passcars and trucks. Not 10BaseT that is the old Etrernet standard. But looking how the cables are connected it's done in the same way....
Simnet and SeatalkNG are both NMEA2000 but with different connectors. Simnet units also has a built in T-joiner so in many cases you don't need a separate one. If you have a T-joiner the length of the drop link is not super sensetive. I have a T-joiner at my mastfoot. One cable goes up the mast to the vane (with the built in terminator) the other to a 5m cable routed to my mast instrumemnts. No problems at all.


Edited by jeb - 22 August 2018 at 08:32
Jesper
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