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Simrad Instrument Problem

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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2017 at 18:11
Bob, in your first picture I see twice the depth as 9.2 and once as 30.3. 
I can see MTW in your 1st picture ( assume 64 F ) but not in the second
I suspect that you have a problem from one of the cable connections.




Edited by Fendant - 03 April 2017 at 18:17
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Bitbaltic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2017 at 22:53
It helps to refer to the proper structure of the DBT sentence:

http://catb.org/gpsd/NMEA.html#_dbt_depth_below_transducer

Quote
        1   2 3   4 5   6 7
        |   | |   | |   | |
 $--DBT,x.x,f,x.x,M,x.x,F*hh<CR><LF>

Field Number:

1) Depth, feet
2)f = feet
3)Depth, meters
4)M = meters
5)Depth, Fathoms
6)F = Fathoms
7)Checksum


So:

Only in Pic 1, second red box do you have the full NMEA sentence with all the data as well as all the measurement qualifiers. It's not a case of just having blank values in the sentences; rather, your sentences are often (not always) incomplete. Note that the DBT sentence doesn't contain the temperature; that is in the MTW Sentence (http://catb.org/gpsd/NMEA.html#_mtw_mean_temperature_of_water). You have a complete MTW sentence between the two red boxes in Pic 1; and MTW sentence just above the first red box in pic 2 which is syntactically (?) complete but has no actual temp reading. I haven't checked any of the other sentences but, basically, MTW and DBT look to me like they are working just as badly as each other.

Its only a gut feeling BUT I suspect that if the control  box was working properly but only getting intermittent data from the transducer, it would be sending out complete NMEA sentences (i,e, containing all the commas and constant units) but without any values, or with values present only intermittently. Because both data AND bits of sentence syntax are going missing, I rather suspect the control box and/or the connections between it and the receiving unit. This could be:

a) a knackered control box
b) a loose wire causing intermittent reception
c) a baud rate problem (although it doesn't look very like that- you usually get gibberish NMEA on a baud rate mismatch).

None of the above excludes a through-hull which is also intermittent of course.


Edited by Bitbaltic - 03 April 2017 at 23:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2017 at 22:59
Originally posted by Fendant Fendant wrote:

Bob, in your first picture I see twice the depth as 9.2 and once as 30.3. 
I can see MTW in your 1st picture ( assume 64 F ) but not in the second
I suspect that you have a problem from one of the cable connections.




9.2 (metres) and 30.3 (feet) are expressions of the same depth, in different units, in the DBT sentence, differnt bits of which are getting lost.

MTW is reading in Celsius (C in the sentence). it is reading junk (64C) but junk temperature is not uncommon. Might be indicative of a more meaningful fault, or might not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2017 at 08:55
As far as I know the Temp comes from the Speed sensor!

BR Thomas
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D0bbies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2017 at 19:54
Hi all,

A breakthrough!!

Thank you "Iemand" you are correct, the temperature comes from the speed paddle, and that being a separate transducer made it highly unlikely that both depth & speed transducers had gone down. It was therefore looking like the transceiver (black box) was failing.

In a fleeting moment overnight I recalled a period before the end of last sailing season when the multi instrument on which the depth was being displayed randomly rebooted itself. So with that in mind I returned to the boat today and bypassed that instrument, removing the "Roblink" cable completely and re-inserted it into the second multi instrument. "VOILA" it worked, I had continuous depth, speed and temperature readings on the second multi instrument.

It is not indicated on the image below but both instruments either side of the compass are "Multi".



The problem I face now is replacing the instrument.

It is a IS15 Multi with the part No/Serial No: 22092183HA4617 if anyone can help?

Just tried to email Simrad UK but the email form doesn't seem to work, maybe I'll phone them tomorrow.

Just thinking on, the Roblink cable I transferred into the multi on the left is the NMEA input, so now I am without an NMEA output socket with data going back to the chart plotter. I ask "Bitbaltic", could there be a temporary solution to this? Do any other instruments have a "data in"/"Data out" option?

Thank you all once again for your assistance.

Bob



Edited by D0bbies - 04 April 2017 at 20:37
2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2017 at 21:07
Originally posted by D0bbies D0bbies wrote:





The problem I face now is replacing the instrument.

It is a IS15 Multi with the part No/Serial No: 22092183HA4617 if anyone can help?

Just tried to email Simrad UK but the email form doesn't seem to work, maybe I'll phone them tomorrow.

Just thinking on, the Roblink cable I transferred into the multi on the left is the NMEA input, so now I am without an NMEA output socket with data going back to the chart plotter. I ask "Bitbaltic", could there be a temporary solution to this? Do any other instruments have a "data in"/"Data out" option?

Thank you all once again for your assistance.

Bob



Good news Bob!

Re. a new multi your best (only?) option is going to be Ebay, they come up reasonably often.

Erm, it's a while since I've looked at IS15, but somewhere or other you should be able to plug the lead which runs to the chartplotter into the output from a working instrument, perhaps at the end of the daisy chain. Sorry don't have time to look into it tonight- but a bit of trial and error should produce results!

Edited to add- ah now I remember it is a selectable NMEA in/out on these multis, isn't it. Dunno if there is anytihng on the wind instrument, I never had an IS15 version of that. Possibly you could patch into the lead from the control box to the multi and take a feed direct to the plotter- but I am thinking off the top of my head here without looking at the manuals.....
Cheers
Huw


Edited by Bitbaltic - 04 April 2017 at 21:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2017 at 07:22
Bob - I had some similar issues, albeit with an IS12 depth and speed gauge. In my case the problem was actually dry joints from the socket pins to the motherboard on the instrument. I only found it by very close inspection after having stripped the motherboard right out of the instrument. The pins simply needed a reheat with a 15w soldering iron. Final fix took 5 mins. Diagnosing it took hours and a replacement transducer as part of the fault finding! It was a couple of years back but I put some photos up on myHanse at the time. Worth a check?

Mark


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D0bbies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2017 at 07:46
Thanks for that Huw.

Whilst searching for a IS15 Multi on Google, I came across an article written on this site indicating that an IS20 unit is compatible with IS15, albeit it and looking at the second image, it only has one NMEA 0183 socket. As you said your instruments are IS20, do you think this could work in any way?

http://myhanse.com/is15-combi-left-over_topic8543.html


Thanks Mark, I'll check the input sockets on the multi today. It can't be the Roblink cable because it works fine in the other instrument. I'll also see if there is a factory reset on the instrument as it could be a software issue.


Edited by D0bbies - 05 April 2017 at 08:30
2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2017 at 09:55
For using IS20 with your IS15 you need an AT10 Converter for 183 to NMEA2000. Furthermore you would need a separate power supply 
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D0bbies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2017 at 14:36
Hi all

Another surprising update: -

I had another fiddle around with connections today with little or no change. With nothing to lose I decided to reboot the whole system as if it were a new installation. Reading the manual I de-powered the system then re-powered. After the reset everything worked normally for the time I remained on the boat (2 hours or so). I took a trip down the river and back and all was good. I don't know whether this has been a permanent solution but I'll keep posting.

Cheers
Bob


2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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