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Dreaming of sailing with a new Hanse

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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dreaming of sailing with a new Hanse
    Posted: 07 August 2018 at 17:43
I started a blog about us!

Everything will turn out ok :)



Edited by mglonnro - 07 August 2018 at 17:44
naked sailor aka Mikael
https://nakedsailor.blog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 20:19
These pictures are frustratingly inviting! It's wonderful weather here in Finland at the moment and I want out sailing right now! LOL

... but I don't have a boat Angry.
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Ist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 18:30
Some pictures from when passing from Skagen, Denmark to Marstrand, Sweden, on a really quiet day. Winds btw 2-3ms, and about halfway, turned up a bit, to btw 3-4ms, and moved forward to about 95-100 degrees TWA to where we where heading. The last half of the trip we averaged about 7.5 knots under such conditions. First half with 2/3ms at 110/120, probably held below 5kn, just enough to not turn on the engine.

When the genny is sheeted this tight, it blows back on the main a bit, as you can see here, the luff of the main is not very effective. The wrinkles in the front of the main are from the "blowback". Further aft towards the leach, the main had good pressure (although all those shiny technora fibers seem to confuse the camera a bit).

These speeds are much beyond the polar charts, probably because our genakker is larger than what they have modeled in the VPP. If we didn't also have the smaller code zero, that is a little more versatile, and should select only one sail, I would have chosen a smaller genny.  105sqm is fine until 6ms/12kn wind at these angles, and as you can see here, it works wonderfully at 3/4ms 6/8kn 95TWA. Stability is not a concern, at such low winds, even with this large sail on H385 (doubles the standard sail area).




Edited by Ist - 28 July 2018 at 19:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 18:15
Our code zero works best btw 40-140ish TWA. The 106 jib releases at 150TWA pretty exactly, even with full twist. Not very effective after 140. Our genny, probably similar to A1 type, about 80-140, a bit lower under stable conditions. 

Getting the deeper angles, beyond 140ish, on assymetric, is more art than science I think, and in stable conditions, it possibly to get it to fly well ahead of the boat with much eased sheet. The luff will also turn much forward and over to the opposite side. Great feeling, but quite a balancing act. If there is little waves, the autopilot holds her perfectly balanced, hardy moves the wheel at all. 

The difficulty is holding the pressure in the sail while being that much eased. With waves, and shifting winds, the balancing act gets much more difficult.

And all of this is with main fully hoisted, as it provides for a more balanced ride. The jib and code zero would probably fly deeper down without the main.



Edited by Ist - 28 July 2018 at 20:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 17:41
Cool, and I appreciate the value you put on performance! I, too, value the sailing part of sailing. Actually I love the sea even more, but sailing is the nicest way to get there :)

How about the downwind angles with the crossover and the gennaker? When do they stop being useful? 

I will look into acquiring the sails separately. Having a code zero/crossover ready on a furler is starting to feel like a tempting idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 16:47
A few pictures of mast head fittings and sails


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 16:24
These boats really need larger headsails to make them perform to their potential under a variety of conditions. I hope that the innovations seen on the new larger boats, i.e 508, with permanently rigged double headsail, will trickle down to the smaller boats sooner rather than later. 

I find that the high aspect rig with Jib (106) and large main is great when above 6-7ms (14kn) and obviously upwind. With laminate sails we can hold full sails until about 10ms (20kn). With the dacrons, we reefed at 8ms.

And, after getting a taste of the larger headsails for downwind and light wind conditions, there is no going back. It yields much higher average speeds.

The key with those sails is ease of use, both hosting and reefing, especially the latter. If not easy and safe, singlehanded, I wouldn't have used them as much. 

Think "switch gears". Having them on a furler allows us to quickly change between jib and large headsail, depending upon angles and wind strength. We deploy them much easier knowing that we can get them down quickly and easily, from cockpit, should things get hairy.

The Hanse prices on those sails and rig details seems a bit over the top (in contrast to their other packages). Also, their description of what exactly is delivered is not very informative.

This can easily be retrofitted, and probably cheaper also. Any rig shop can do this in an hour, and probably DYI also. Being in Finland, your access to Selden parts shouldn't be a problem.

For genakker: These are relatively forgiving sails, i.e loosely fitted, nylon cloth,  and dont need to be cut to the millimeter by Elvstroem to do the job well. You can get a "standard" genakker sown in Asia for about 1000 euros. We have a 105 sqm with 15.5m luff. More than the 93sqm offered by H, but or experience is that the H385 is stiff enough to handle this. It handles our 105sqm genakker well and safely to about 6ms wind at 90 degrees (small waves). We have held it at gusts to 8ms, about 90 degrees TWA, and thats quite exhilarating and is where you see 9+ knots SOG, and fingers crossed, still haven't broached...On deeper angles can probably hold the genakker more easily at those winds. 

The code zero: Needs to be fitted more exactly, probably a variety of cloth. Ours is pretty stiff, DP cloth 2.5oz, 60sqm. It acts more or less like a large i.e 150% Genoa. Will probably add UV protection to have it more or less permanently rigged.

Furlers: We use Harken furlex as it allows for easy switch between code zero and genakker, while using the same furling drum and endless loop. Didn't quite figure out whether the others had this flexibility at the time when we installed it. Probably other good options also, but so far, very pleased and have had no problems in getting the sails furled even when things are getting a little pressed.

As you can tell, quite interested in the sailing performance...and find the Hanses quite rewarding in that respect and a good notch above other production cruisers. For the next boat project, a few years from now, the conundrum will probably be between a proper performance cruiser, or choose a much larger Hanse at the same price...










Edited by Ist - 29 July 2018 at 19:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 14:47
Thank you, Ist, for taking the time to comment!

Performance package, yes, it comes at a 100% discount, so a no-brainer Smile. It includes the Selden MDS as well as the dyneema halyards.

Winch upgrade Thumbs Up Secondary winches also included as factory options. The Lewmar winch selection guide suggest the 45 version for 93 m2 spinnaker sheets (don't really know what the difference in load is when using gennaker or crossover), so I gather both primary and secondary winches should be 45. 

Regarding headsails, I have included the gennaker package, which includes the actual sail, a squeezer and the deck equipment, as well as the anchor/forestay package with gennaker/crossover eye. I'd love to have the crossover/code zero as well, but that's another 5400 eur (incl VAT), so if I have to choose (I do Big smile), I think the gennaker will be more useful. In Finland, though, it feels like the destination is always dead ahead upwind no matter where you're going, but that's another story Smile

Rub rails Thumbs Up (but have to sleep on it!)

Good to hear your positive comments about the quality!

The options and other stuff have so far added about 46% to the base price, so more and more I'm settling on 388 being the better choice.


Edited by mglonnro - 28 July 2018 at 14:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 11:37
The performance package is quite a good deal, especially with the early bird offerings. It will cost more later to upgrade sails and associated hardware. The performance package includes MDS sliders for the main. These are small “cars” that roll inside the track on the mast, fits well with Selden, and provides the same benefits as Strongtack system.
We had MDS cars on our previous Dacron sails. It really makes raising and dropping the main very easy.

Retrofitting the sliders is very easy, but is possibly mostly a question of how the sails are sewn. I.e the spacing between the fasteners in the luff. If delivered with performance package/FCL sails, this will be accounted for. The MDS sliders build vertically about 1.5/2 times as much as plastic sliders so you can’t stack as many as you would with the nylon sliders. Our current laminate mainsail has the MDS cars at the battens, but on the other hand, the sliders are spaced much more densely. As such there is much less potential for the sliders to get twisted and stuck. Possibly this helps make it easy to raise the main.

Also consider Dyneema halyards so the forces are transmitted directly and doesn’t get wasted into rope stretch. The standard mast turning blocks are undersized, but can easily be switched later for larger and lower friction blocks.
Same goes for mainsheet blocks on the boom (ours had 70 size blocks which is to small, should
be 84)

Winches: size upgrade is most important, the standard 40 is undersized. Whether electric or not, upgrade the size. As these winches will be used for practically all line handling, including mainsheet, reef and all trims, it really makes it easier and more flexible with larger sized winches. And even if electric winches, they will probably not be used in electric mode for the smaller trim adjustments, but a bigger size is helpful regardless.

Other headsails: I think this is an important upgrade, tremendously improves speed at lower winds. Genakker and/or code zero/reacher. The Scandinavian archipelago summertime has these high pressure systems with low winds and we find ourselves using these sails more often than not, and consequently, hardly ever use the engine.
Headsail upgrade requires some hardware. The standard mast will need a halyard fitting on top, at least 30cm above the jib/spinnaker halyard, and you will need turning blocks aft at the cockpit. A code zero will also require some reinforcement of the bow spirit/anchor system (unless this is now done differently). I believe the “reacher” upgrade package includes all of this. The headsails are most easily handled on furlers/torsion wires. This allows for single handling from cockpit and no need to step on deck. If you want both genakker and code zero, consider a furling system that allows use of the same drum.

Secondary winches: necesarry if you have other headsails than the self tacker. Don’t know about the difficulty in retrofitting these on a 388, but would be surprised if it is a problem. On all its models, Hanse has aluminium reinforcements embedded at the correct locations to fasten deck equipment. The new build winch upgrade prices seem very competetively priced.

We have done much performance upgrades and it has completely transformed the sailing experience. This is a fast hull, and with a few upgrades to deck ware, sails, and rig details, you can really enjoy that potential.

Engine/bow truster. Standard is good enough. Definitely folding prop (for sailing performance) I don’t think a bow truster is needed. The deep rudder provides excellent control of the aft, and its 37 feet are short enough to allow for control of the bow. A few basic springing techniques is all you need. But if she was any larger, I would probably have preferred a bow truster.

Rub rail: surely helpful if you sail in areas with “poles” at the docks., I. E Denmark, Baltics, Netherlands? Otherwise not necessary.

General quality: No obvious issues on our 2014 model, in fact, I am positively surprised. The critical issues, Hull, deck, mast, rudder are very robustly made. No use of inner liners, weak keel joints or other structural issues that can give serious problems. The GRP grid and keel/hull joints are iserious stuff.

All systems are serviceable (except perhaps the black water tank) and they seem to be using pretty decent quality systems, I.e water pumps, heaters, etc. electrics are really nicely done.

Interior furniture layout is cleverly/practically designed, its build quality is obviously not very exclusive, but does the job nicely. The light colored alpi oak style is attractive for a Scandinavian, but not sure about its sustainability/quality over time. Regardless, I think you will quickly appreciate whatever color interior there is. There is much light/windows, even more on the 388, and that’s more important. There is more than enough storage below deck for family cruising.

Size: 388/418? Beyond the obvious benefits of a bigger boat, and the associated costs. The 388 seems a little short on cockpit storage compared to the 385. I.e the life raft and gas compartments are gone. For family cruising, we very certainly appreciate the cockpit storage on the 385, if this is better on a 418, possibly worthwhile a size upgrade.

Edited by Ist - 28 July 2018 at 12:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 10:41
With fenderlist I meant rub rail.
90% boats in Denmark have rub rails. The other 10% wish they had.
Wooden poles can come in raw shapes.
Infact hull-side windows could be an issue
My hanse 370 has a small stainless steel rub rail about 8mm thick and 15mm height.

Folding prop is a must-have!
Hanse 370#480 30HP 3-cabin
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