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Rig Tension & Guages

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Clouded Pearl View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 March 2015 at 22:02
We have just had our mast stepped and the marina only does a rough job and suggest I fine tune the shroud tension.

I am looking at tension guages and wonder if anybody can help with the foĺlowing please:

1. What is the shroud diameter on the 385? I can measure them of course but I was hoping to order a guage before I next travel to my boat 2.5 hours away.

2. What tension should I use, or is this covered in the guage instructions?

3. To ensure my mast is perfectly vertical from port to starboard, is it just a case of hanging a plumb line from the mast sheave (ie the main halyard with a weight on it) when the boat is afloat and in calm waters, or am I being too simplistic?

4. Are there any other important points we should be considering?

Thanks.

Geoff

Edited by Clouded Pearl - 06 March 2015 at 22:03
Hanse 385 #12 Dec 2011
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 01:19
Geoff.
No instructions will come with the gauge, it is totally boat model dependent.
If you search this forum, you will find many a thread on this topic particularly for the 370 and 400 (both of which you are very close to). you will have a couple of different diameter wires on the 385 but the Loos PT-3M will cover them.
 
I have never seen a tuning guide for the 385, but there are ones for the 370 and 400 from which you can get a very good idea of where you should be on tensions and dimension. Here is a link to the 400 http://www.nz.northsails.com/RADUploads/MastSetup400.pdf
 
You will be very surprised how much you have to tighten the cap shrouds - this will determine forestay sag which (eliminating as much as possible) is important for the boats pointing ability. The rake of the mast is also important for this purpose.
 
As far as determining if the mast is perfectly vertical, the only method I know is to measure from a middle point at the top of the mast to an identical point of the hull on port and starboard - the measurements must be identical.
 
Good luck
Steve
Steve

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Clouded Pearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clouded Pearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 06:59
That's really helpful Steve. Thanks.

I noticed in my first season with my boat last year and still as a relative novice, my pointing ability was not quite as good as I had hoped. I had done no rig tuning however and resolved to research the issue for this season.

Hanse 385 #12 Dec 2011
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 13:18
Geoff,

My rig was soft when I first had it too. The main shrouds are 8 mm.

Looking at the advice, for full racing the caps should be at. 20-25, for cruising 15-20%.
Mine were no where near this, so I have reset them to 15 to see how we go. As I'm cruising now, I find 15 is still a bit soft but I'm not trying to point as high as I used to. I will reset again when I'm back in Turkey maybe a bit higher.
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Persse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Persse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 15:26
In windy conditions and reefed in approximately 20 knots or more I was getting a very loose lower shroud on the leeward side. I have had my 385 a year. My rigger retuned the rig after loosening everything. He works by ear and eye - constantly giving a twang to the shroud and eyeing up the mast so I can't give any numbers. He tightened the upper (cap) shrouds a lot compared to the way we first had them, and then slightly eased the lower shrouds. the results have been very good so far.

Phil O.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 16:43
Geoff like you I have a Hanse at Inverkip.
 
I would suggest you talk to Alistair Buchanan at the rigging shop at the Marina. Alistair and his team were very helpful in setting up Olicana and like already mention much was done by feel.
 
They have set up most of the successful racing yachts on the Clyde over the years and have always been helpful with their advice;
 
Cheers
 
John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silversailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2015 at 02:24
John,
Can you provide me contact info for Allistair Buchanan?
Many thanks.
Silversailor
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Clouded Pearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clouded Pearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2015 at 13:21
Ok, so my mast has been restepped and we're about to come off the hard. There's another 385 on the hard next to me and I notice the cap shrouds are clamped with an allen bolt and retaining clip to the end of the top spreader. If I adjust the cap shrouds myself with a suitable tension guage, do I need to loosen these allen bolts a touch whilst I adjust the bottle screws? If not, will this not bend my top spreader downwards a touch or create some other stress riser?

Whilst I think it's a good idea to get our local rigger to do the job, I'd like to learn and better understand this so I know what I'm doing when it's time to tune her a touch.

Thanks

Hanse 385 #12 Dec 2011
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2015 at 23:18

Interesting. My gut feel is that it won't matter too much as you aren't going to shorten the shroud very much but if it isn't too much hassle then I'd loosen it before tightening the shroud. (Don't believe the 400 has that allen bolt)

Referring to the diagram above, when tightening the shroud you will have to put a wrench at location 1 while turning the turnbuckle (2). This will ensure that you aren't twisting the wire as you tighten. Also, I suggest adding a lubricant to the threads and I used a very long screwdriver or crowbar to turn the turnbuckle - it takes a lot of force. Make sure you do equal turns in each side (port and starboard) so that the mast stays vertical).
 
Cheers
Steve

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Clouded Pearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clouded Pearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2015 at 22:50
Having considered loads of information on the topic and all the helpful advice on here (thanks) as well as from Phil at Inspiration Marine, I am going to aim for 20% on the cap shrouds to start with, see how that affects the forestay tension and adjust up the D1s to bring some of the mast bend out and keep a reasonable fullness rather than flattening too much. I'll then tune her up gradually when sailing and see how we go. It'll be interesting to see the effects.

Edited by Clouded Pearl - 16 March 2015 at 22:51
Hanse 385 #12 Dec 2011
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