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Wear of the forestay wire

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KobbSkolten View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KobbSkolten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wear of the forestay wire
    Posted: 25 August 2015 at 14:01
I discovered that the fore-stay wire on my Hanse 312 2004 is worn, and i danger of breaking.
(I've secured the mast for now with the spinnaker and foresail halyards)

The rolling function has always been slow, but lately it has been almost impossible to roll out/in the fore sail.
Looking at it by Binoculars, tells me the wire in the top, where it excites the foresail profile, is out of shape.
The cords is out of place and some of them even sticking out from the wire,.

I've arranged for the wire to be changed, but i wonder why this has happened. Is this a common error on a 11 years old boat with moderate use, or is there something wrong, that should be addressed as well as changing the broken wire ?

Has any body else experienced this ?
Has anybody altered their setup to improve rolling function and wear of this wire ?

My rolling system is a open FacNor.

Also, I've been foretasted a cost for changing this wire including parts and labor  at approx 8-10 000,- Norwegian kroner. Does this sound like a fair price for this kind of job (i think they will change it with the mast standing)?

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2015 at 14:30
My 311 is on its third forestay in 12 years.
I have had regular rig checks and changed my complete rigging inc bottle screws at the eigth year
Last year we found that the shackle joining forestay to mast pin has distorted and twisted 45 degrees
Rigger was baffled by this and has checked the furling gear and bearings and assures me all is ok
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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iemand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iemand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2015 at 14:41
the main problem is the poor facnor furler!
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007
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KobbSkolten View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KobbSkolten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 07:42
Thanks for the input.

Samuel : I'll tip my rigger about the possible Shackle problem. Thanks for the heads up.
Can you say anything about your costs during these two wire changes you've done?

Iemand : Can it be solved or at least improved by alternations or modifications, or is changing to another brand the only solution in your opinion ?
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 08:13
I am currently on holiday in the boat but cannot look up exact cost.
However, not including the travelling to and from the boat to collect the old forestay and return with new i seem to recall 80-00 sterling. I think he charged me about 45-00 for travelling each way a distance of 19 miles each way. However i also had a rig survey and that included travelling and that was 250-00 but gave a full report on all standing and running rigging and was separate from the new stay costs but included checking the working etc on the facnor furler
The first time the rigger was working at the marina and he charged 50-00 for the new stay but that was a few years ago
In all cases the mast was taken down by the marina as i had other jobs - new mast base, new wind unit etc and cost for the drop was 90 and about 110-00 for putting back. However, i slackened off all the rigging removed boom etc and put it all back and tensioned the rig myself
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 08:29
I am unable to edit my last post but i wanted to add that the first forestay had a slight kink so could have been used . However, i had the tip of the mast moved forward 300-400 mm so now it is absolutely dead upright. This made the helm slightly lighter and actually improved performance
The last time it was replaced it had started to unstrand the wire slightly as well as twist the shackle. As i have said the rigger could not understand why.
he said that the Facnor furler was working ok. I have never had any problems with it that i am aware of but i will nip up the mast and check the wire at the end of the season
To change the shackle one has to remove a riveted pin. I drilled this out myself and fitted an 8 mm bolt with a nut with split pin through the nut. If your rigger has to do this it will need the mast dropped
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Bitbaltic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 10:01
Originally posted by iemand iemand wrote:

the main problem is the poor facnor furler!


This is exactly correct. The bearings in the top swivel of the Facnor wear out and the swivel starts turning with the foil when unrolling the sail. This allows the foresail halyard to begin to wrap around the foil, the system gets stiffer, you pull harder, the foil twists the forestay, the wire unstrands, if you're lucky you find out about it before it brings down your mast.

Choices are 1) replace the top swivel of the Facnor every ?5 years or so;

2) replace the Facnor system wholesale for something which does not wear out/as easily.

I changed my Facnor SD130 system completely for a Furlex 100s. The price of a new top swivel for the Facnor was 50% of the price of a whole replacement furlex and I wanted the long term peace of mind.
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Bitbaltic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 10:05
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

My 311 is on its third forestay in 12 years.
I have had regular rig checks and changed my complete rigging inc bottle screws at the eigth year
Last year we found that the shackle joining forestay to mast pin has distorted and twisted 45 degrees
Rigger was baffled by this and has checked the furling gear and bearings and assures me all is ok


My money is very firmly on your facnor top swivel being knackered and your rigger being wrong. I would get a second opinion on it if you are going through forestays at that sort of rate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2015 at 17:48
A more cost efficient way (to address issue with halyard rotating) is to take down the sail, use fresh water to rinse (clean) the 2 SS bearings on the top swivel, spin the swivel and put fresh water for a 30 minute period, maybe use McLube one drop when the bearings are dry again.
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5480&taxid=372
Only one drop of this new conditioner will repel salt, dirt and other deposits to protect, lubricate and condition the bearing surfaces. Reduced friction allows balls to roll freely and evenly, greatly improving traveler performance.
*****
From another post
So I called a Facnor agent in France who I know well. He told me that it is very important to rinse out halyard swivel at least twice a year and more often if there is a lot of building dust around. He also told me that the system is specifically designed (indeed required by the VOR 70 fleet) to be operated under high tension. I admitted that I had forgotten to do this for the past few years, but he said don't worry, do the following and call back:

- Rinse the swivel through with a running hose for about half an hour giving the swivel a really good aggressive shake and a spin every few minutes

- Squirt in some WD40 Silicone Lube and spin the swivel, then load it and some more, then more WD40 Silicone Lube and more spinning.

- Flush again with water and then add more Lube!
************

we did rins with water and put McLube one drop oil on a Facnor SD 180 (Hanse 371, 2002) 10 days ago and the guys sailing now told me that the issue is gone. No problem.

Use google and you will find others solving this issue in a similar way, some use WD40 to clean the bearings,
Facnor recommend to clean the swivel 1-2 times a year.
On our 342 have we not needed to do this yet.

Water and time is almost for free.

Edited by skipper - 26 August 2015 at 19:44
Cheers,
Skipper
Hanse 342 2005 (Sparcraft mast, white hull, wheel steering, deep draft keel, short rudder)
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Lippe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2017 at 09:53
Originally posted by skipper skipper wrote:

A more cost efficient way (to address issue with halyard rotating) is to take down the sail, use fresh water to rinse (clean) the 2 SS bearings on the top swivel, spin the swivel and put fresh water for a 30 minute period, maybe use McLube one drop when the bearings are dry again.
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5480&taxid=372
Only one drop of this new conditioner will repel salt, dirt and other deposits to protect, lubricate and condition the bearing surfaces. Reduced friction allows balls to roll freely and evenly, greatly improving traveler performance.
*****
From another post
So I called a Facnor agent in France who I know well. He told me that it is very important to rinse out halyard swivel at least twice a year and more often if there is a lot of building dust around. He also told me that the system is specifically designed (indeed required by the VOR 70 fleet) to be operated under high tension. I admitted that I had forgotten to do this for the past few years, but he said don't worry, do the following and call back:

- Rinse the swivel through with a running hose for about half an hour giving the swivel a really good aggressive shake and a spin every few minutes

- Squirt in some WD40 Silicone Lube and spin the swivel, then load it and some more, then more WD40 Silicone Lube and more spinning.

- Flush again with water and then add more Lube!
************

we did rins with water and put McLube one drop oil on a Facnor SD 180 (Hanse 371, 2002) 10 days ago and the guys sailing now told me that the issue is gone. No problem.

Use google and you will find others solving this issue in a similar way, some use WD40 to clean the bearings,
Facnor recommend to clean the swivel 1-2 times a year.
On our 342 have we not needed to do this yet.

Water and time is almost for free.


Skipper. PLease let me know how exactly you made the rinse of the bearings. Did you force the water into the unit through seals on top of the swivel for 30 minutes?

Best regards
Kari


Edited by Lippe - 06 October 2017 at 09:54
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