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461 Blue Water Cruising option?

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Annasonaskip View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 August 2016 at 13:24
I'm a newbie to this forum and my question is not the most original so apologies in advance!

My wife and I are looking to retire in less than 10 years.  The plan is go on an open ended cruise, taking in as many places as time, health and safety will allow. We're hoping to buy our chosen yacht in the next 2 years, to give us plenty of time to get used to her and install necessary equipment.

We like the idea of a Hanse, especially a 461 with the large stern cabin option.  From a sailing point of view the self-tacking jib and secure helming position appeals  (originally I quite liked the idea of a 470 but my wife doesn't much care for the open cockpit at the stern).  

However, the usual "pontoon experts" are steering me towards Scandinavian boats (for their strength, heavy displacement, etc.).  Personally, I don't like the look of them, inside or out and, in truth, they are beyond our budget. Although retiring, we're in our mid-forties at present so were not quite ready to sit down in the Hallberg Rassey armchairs knitting needles in hand.

I realise this forum is hardly impartial but I don't think I am wrong in believing that a Hanse is a good option for a circumnavigation.  Any thoughts?

Many thanks

Jon 
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leemind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leemind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2016 at 09:17
100% yes. It's strong steel subframe makes it stiff and powerful. Several forum members have navigated the world on 461s and 470s with no problems at all.  I suspect that you will break before the boat does.  I heard the same from "pontoon experts" as well (brilliant phrase!) but ignored them.

As with any boat, you may want to upgrade a few things depending on her previous life.

You may struggle with the large stern cabin option, I don't know how many they made in that configuration.

Private me if you want to chat more.

David
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Annasonaskip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annasonaskip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2016 at 08:40
Hi David,

Thank you for your helpful feedback.

Things are moving a little quicker than expected and we may be in a position to bring forward the purchase to early next year. I'll PM you details of a yacht I have in mind if that's ok.

Cheers

Jon
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gertha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gertha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2016 at 22:27
10 years ago I bought a new 370.
Had no great plan.
Now looking for an upgrade .

I always find it hard talking to children; however it is disappointing to think that at the age of mid 40 you now know what you need for the rest of your life.

Here a few facts, all in pounds
A 461 will cost a min of 5k pa moreing and very basic maintenance. Realistic double this.
Any boat will need new standing rigging and engine bits, another 20k.
New sails, uphostery, pumps, liferaft service, I can go on basically another 20k.

In 10 years you will spend in excess of 100k keeping a boat in the same condition as you bought it.

Buy a cheap boat, learn how to sail, learn how to live in each others company. Sell it to give it away. then buy a boat that matches your aspirations.

There are too many dreamers washed up in marinas pickling themselves.


simon






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Annasonaskip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annasonaskip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2016 at 13:38
Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply...I think!  I can't quite work out if you are trying to be helpful and funny or condescending.  I'm assuming it's the former Smile

Don't worry about the sailing, maintenance costs, etc. (and relationship advice). I'm reasonably well versed in both having owned a yacht for several years, done a few RYA qualifications and been happily married for 15+ years. 

My question concerned the suitability of a Hanse yacht for the early part of my retirement.  I figured an owners' forum would illicit the most knowledgeable and honest response (as opposed to the blurb manufacturers put out themselves).  

I see you've sailed all over the place and obviously know what you're talking about so I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.  Are you saying that you don't rate a 461, which would be a surprise as you've posted elsewhere on this forum about wanting to upgrade to this yacht (or a 470), or were you just opining that it wasn't suitable based on the assumption that I couldn't sail or afford to run it?

Best


Jon

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Andrew6586 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Andrew6586 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2016 at 20:31
Hi Jon,
My wife and I have recently bought a 415. We've had a month sailing her in southern England so far. We bought the two cabin version as that gives us a large storage cabin and a cabin for my wife's sister who often sails with us. We have a berth conversion for the saloon should we need it. (Family visits) This is the third yacht we have owned and out last was a slightly smaller very seaworthy Westerly. We have also sailed other yachts too. We have found the 415 very comfortable for 4 and easily manageable for 6. She sails very easily and comfortably. I have been impressed at her ability to cope with too much sail.( done deliberately to test margins). Our intention is to sail to the Med and then the Carribbean and I'm sure she is big enough, fast enough and safe enough. I don't think we will venture further but if we do I'm confident we would be fine with some additions. (Water maker, extra changing capacity etc). I could go on but my needs might not be yours, we spent quite a while choosing a boat for our needs and lifestyle.

Andrew
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gertha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gertha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2016 at 21:20
The written word is always a challenge.

My main concern and observation was based on the number of boats parked up around the world where peoples dreams have not matched reality; that is obviously not a problem for you.

Another thought was you will setting off in10 years in a 23 year old boat, so I would save the money of ownership and buy something better with my money in a few years time; again you know what you are committing too .

Sailing , never really thought about your skills; but a complete mupet can sail the trade winds; marinas are a challenge; but anyone can bounce in; I normally do.
The main challenge is living in close company with other people and everyone keeping sane .

The 461 as a good boat, yes and no.
The main strength of the 461 is the steel frame, this makes a strong boat, however the galvanised steel sitting in a salt water environment may fail. If you go aground the boat will be a right off; there is no repair, the same applies to all steel frames stuck in fibre glass.
Look at old Lotus cars ; I come from Norfolk so will not hear a bad thing about them. Steel chasie in fiber glass body ends in failure.
For the long term as in another 20 years maybe this is not a good thing.

If I was in your position I would buy a 455 new; you will have 8 years to tweak the boat to what you want and will know the history.
A 461 will need to have most of the systems changed by the time you set sail, so the cost will be similar but the boat 12 years newer.

I am looking at 461; but will have sold on long before you set off, so my angle is a bit different.

Simon



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leemind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote leemind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 09:52
gertha, I have to disagree with your comments very strongly.  The steel subframe in my 10y old 461 is in absolutely mint condition.  The galvanising is very thick and has never chipped or flaked off.

Compare and contrast this to a charter boat (Jeanneau Sun Odyssey) that I took out last week of the same era (2006) where the keel bolts and steel backing plates where showing quite a lot of signs of rust.  I was very happy to give that back...   
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Annasonaskip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annasonaskip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 13:25
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the post. This is just the type of first hand information I was after.  It is good to hear you have such confidence in your yacht.  You've only reinforced what I already thought.

Happy sailing.

Jon


 
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Annasonaskip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annasonaskip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 13:42
Hi Simon,

Thanks for this.  Plenty of food for thought.  I can see where you're coming from in terms of timeline, age of vessel, etc. I will certainly be looking into the "steel frame" point.  I'd always budgeted for changing standing rigging (more than once) and changing some systems but hull integrity is obviously paramount.   

Totally agree with you about the trials of the marina.  We sail on the Bristol Channel so whilst the 13 metre tidal range brings its own challenges, and rewards, I've always said that navigating the marina and lock is the biggest challenge - so many things to hit and so many other people who can hit you.  Give me Force 6 in the Channel over the carnage of a queue for a full lock on an ebbing tide any day!

Good luck with your own yacht search.

Jon
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