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AGM battery problem

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Wild View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 10:44
Looking at the Victron lifespan cycles chart, the difference between 30% and 50% discharge is very big in numbers of cycles and the difference between 50% and 80% is very small.
That’s mean’s you have to keep the state of charge higher than 65%. Keeping in mind that you never can charge the batteries for 100% our first set died after 3 years, then we installed a Victron BVM 702 monitor and keep the SOC plus 65% and they live for 8 years, a good result IMO we sailing in Greece and high temperature+30*C is also bad for the lifespan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Coverdale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 11:18
What charging system are you using? Do you motor a lot?

Ian & Andrea
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 13:14
Originally posted by Kox Kox wrote:

Originally posted by Johan Hackman Johan Hackman wrote:

It is not even close. With my current batteries I am not even reaching a 100 cycles at 44%, according to my battery monitor.

Johan


100 cycles with an average discharge of 44%?

If that's the case, then you most probably have quite some discharges below 50%.





Sorry, my mistake. I meant 44% of what I can use, i.e. 44% of 50%. So 22% of the total capacity of the battery bank.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 15:39
[QUOTE=Johan Hackman]Thanks for the replies.

I do have a battery monitor since 2006 on my boat and I think it is very important to have one. Mine is a branded Victron. I never exceed 50% discharge. The monitor gives you the number of chargings cycles and at what average discharge each cycle has been which gives you an idea of the lifespan of the batteries. Victron has stated that in their technical sheet but that is under the assumption that each cycle is only counted when the batteries are fully charged.



Johan yours batterie monitor is like the Victron one?
the Victron BMV 701-702 history data give you the number of cycles “a charge cycle is counted every time the SOC drops below 65% , then rise above 90%”


Wild


Edited by Wild - 17 October 2022 at 15:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 15:45
Victron BMV give you also
Number of total discharge to 0% SOC.
And the average discharge dept.
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 15:59
Mine, that is an Odelco "Batt-Meter2", is all to similar to and older Victron battery monitor not to not be a Victron. I think it is just a branded Victron.

It indeed gives you history. When the charging reaches a certain voltage and current the monitor assumes that the charger has gone into float charging and therefore counts this as a charging cycle.

Now, as mentioned, the way we use our batteries doesn't look this way. They are not like fork trucks that are used during the day and being fully charged at night, meaning that each day is one charging cycle. The number of charges don't actually add up the same way as charging cycles.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 20:44
Originally posted by PRCH PRCH wrote:

In real life in a sailing boat the use of the battery is very different. For some periods we sail for days without recharging the battery to 100% - it is only partial recharged, maybe by solar or the engine running for half an hour. This leads to sulfatation of the plates in the battery and in the end loss of battery capacity.

To say it in plain words - allmost nobody reaches the number of cycles stated in the data sheets due to the way we use the batteries.

You could have a look at theese Victron batteries - they have less sulfation in case of partial state-of-charge operation. URL=https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/lead-carbon-battery]https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/lead-carbon-battery[/URL]


What you are saying is really interesting. It makes me think that AGMs are not the right choice of batteries in the end.

The lead-carbon batteries seem to be an interesting option but even more expensive.

Johan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2022 at 20:46
Originally posted by Ian Coverdale Ian Coverdale wrote:

What charging system are you using? Do you motor a lot?



I charge my batteries while out sailing with solar panels. When in my home berth (during extended periods in the winter, for instance) I am on shore power with a good battery charger. I tend to motor very little.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alidal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 11:34
My Victron AGM battery (both start and service) is from 2010 and stil nearly as good as new! 
During winter I just charge them maybe every second or third month. I think thats the best way taken care of these batteries...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 14:52
I'm not impressed with the VICTRON batteries.    If you got 14 years out of them, consider yourself fortunate.   I replaced my 4 VICTRON 165AH AGM batteries with 6 116AH FIREFLY carbon foam batteries (act like AGM and are set as AGM for most parameters).    While it seems like an equal or slightly greater size bank resulted,  that is not the case.   I *NEVER* got the VICTRON batteries below 70% SOC without having the voltage drop below that needed for inverter, coffee maker,  etc..    In other words,  only 30% of the 660AH was accessible.    With the Carbon Foam batteries,  I've gone down to 50% SOC and had them still reading 12.5V.    So with 660AH of Victron batteries I only had access to 200AH (roughly).  Where as with the 700AH bank of FIREFLY batteries I still had 12.5V after 350AH of usage.  It might have gone further.    That's almost 100% more accessible energy. 

I'm not sure I would use the house bank to start the engine unless its an emergency situation.     The starting needs are very different than the house bank draw.

Many boats  have a solenoid that groups the batteries together for charging purposes but deliberately isolates the starting battery once the house bank drops below 12.5V.     For obvious reasons.   Did your boat have this arrangement?




Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
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