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Bottom rudder bearing

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holby View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 July 2019 at 20:06
has anybody got a diagram with the shape and manufactured sizes of a bottom rudder bearing.. I have just this season made and replaced the the top bearing, and I find I now need to do the bottom one..
Also advice on how to actually remove the said bearing..cheers
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2019 at 23:10
Ahoy Holby

JEFA marine has made rudders for Hanse.
In this link to Jefa's ftp server they have a diagram of a 301 rudder.

It is ø60 in the shaft so it is almost similar to the 311 bearings in this link:

In my old boat (Hanse 311) the lower bearing house was corroded and made a lot of trouble.
I ended up replacing both rudder bearings and the rudder with brand new 130mm fiberglass tube.
And a new rudder...
The lower bearing house was glassed to the hull so it will be a big deal to replace. Therefore I went for total upgrade because I had a polish rudder that was no good.


Kind regards
H8JER


Edited by H8jer - 28 July 2019 at 23:33
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2019 at 09:14
Dave
When I had a new Jefa rudder fitted by the yard (my Polish one delaminated when I grounded in the Murray Firth) I think that they just tapped the roller caged bearing out of the bottom using a length of bar, which they inserted from inside the locker down the rudder tube.  I did not see the new one go in but the total time from removing the old to inserting the new took them less than 3/4 hour (I went for a coffee & the rudder was back in when I came back) I had already fitted the top bearing myself & the only hassle was fitting the flexible gland at the top of the short GRP stub as it had been purpose made from some "bouncy castle" material & had been made a bit too tight.--Note, that it has lasted better than the original material fitted by Hanse. So if this needs replacing it is worth considering.

I purchased new bearings complete, but I seem to recall that one could have bought new rollers & inserted them into the existing cage. It may be worth an inquiry to Jefa.

If a 301 is anything like a 311 it will be easy enough.


Edited by samuel - 29 July 2019 at 09:20
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2019 at 09:30
H8jer and Samuel, thanks for your reply... 
I will I think wait for the winter to drop of my rudder, and have a look.. 
In the second half of 2014, I paid a well known Scottish boat yard called Silvers, to replace both top and bottom bearings, they said they did, so the boat was put into the water and I sailed of, i then realise that infact the top bearing had not been replaced.. and went back.. they were somewhat angry with me and it was almost as if I did not know what I was talking about.. when they say it they reluctantly agreed that it had not been changed.. When I queried about the bottom one, they were were affronted and assured me that it had.. so as I was short of time after they had made the new top bearing and fitted it... ( it was stiff and hard to turn, to which they told me it would wear in).  I left.. the top bearing did not wear in, and never eased up.. I was later told it was not the right material.. but again was unsure of the advice given.. so last year I made out of a material I discussed with a SA company, a top rudder bearing.. and it is top notch. But I now realise that in fact the bottom bearing needs replacing..So now after just over 4 years, whether the bottom bearing was changed.. but hey how.. I will not be going back to that years again. 
Surprised tho to hear that the bottom bearing is glassed in and not just a tight push ( Bang in ) fit.. 
This puts a different twist in the job.. as I’m loathed to trust another company to do it right.. 
Thanks tho for your input.
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2019 at 13:33
Dave
On reflection, Although i purchased a complete bearing, I seem to recall that the yard found that the existing outer casing was ok. so just changed the rollers. This is the part that they taped out with a drift. That is why it was so quick.
Then they were able to put in a pair of rings - top & bottom- to hold the rollers in place.
It all worked brilliantly when done. The insurance Co paid for the rudder & I paid for the bearings as I felt it prudent whilst the rudder was out. So my bearing casing was not shot & that is why I got away with just having new rollers in the bottom. I renewed the top one complete.

I seem to recall, either on this forum or another one, that an owner said that his 301 has a delrin bush in the bottom bearing, not rollers


Edited by samuel - 29 July 2019 at 13:37
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2019 at 09:12
Interesting you have rollers, my bearings are just plastic tubes, but the new top one is a specific kind of plastic with a dry lub built in... and certainly not nylon..is your roller version the normal or is mine the norm?
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2019 at 09:31
Dave
Whatever you do, do not use nylon as it swells in water I am not totally sure but I think that the same goes for oil filled nylon derivatives such as Oilon (I usually turn it for bearings & small jobs for sailing club members) as being nylon based it is liable to swell & jam the shaft. (is your top bearing green by any chance as that is  the colour it comes in?). You may consider Delrin
May i suggest that you google :-

https://www.directplastics.co.uk/delrin-rod

They have a good website which gives info about the performance of each type of plastic. You can buy the rod & have it turned locally which would be the most economical way to go. Having the equipment I would probably have a go at making my own!! I have never turned Delrin, but Direct's website gives info on this.

However a chat to Jefa might enable you to convert to rollers which would be far better but you will need to glass in the outer case first.


Edited by samuel - 30 July 2019 at 09:42
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2019 at 21:15
Samual, yes I am aware that nylon does swell. I replaced my top bearing with a vesconite material , i machined in the farm workshop.. this material, has minuscule water absorption properties and has been designed for marine bearings.. plus it has a dry lube built in.. 
it is working great.. 
I’m just looking for details and a diagram with external size of the bottom bearing, plus how to remove it.. 
a photo of my top bearing..



Edited by holby - 26 August 2019 at 21:16
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Borjebus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borjebus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2019 at 07:44
Two things that makes your lower rudder bearing last longer:

1) When boat is hauled, flush the bearing with fresh water
2) During the season, frequently pour fresh water with detergent into the rudder tube in the aft compartment. This is especially important during the weeks when new barnacles are born. Here in Sweden I believe it's beginning of August.
BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2019 at 13:12
David,
Replaced the roller bearings on my Hanse 311 years ago. In the link you’ll find ‘fotoalbum’ with more pictures than in the article. https://www.uisge-beatha.eu/2009/02/Winteronderhoud
Uisge Beatha

Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002)
Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu
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