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Bottom rudder bearing

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AlanL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlanL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2020 at 09:01
Perry just reminded me of a couple of things:
First, the point about getting the top bolt out.  As the boat is out of the water all the weight of the rudder was on the bolt which fits through a slot in the side of the rudder shaft.  Once we figured out that we had to take the weight off the bolt (someone below holding the rudder up) then it was a lot easier!  We ended up drilling out the end with the captive nut then bashing it out with a hammer and punch while taking the weight off and it came out fairly ok.  Fortunately the fitting was not damaged.  I got new bolts from Bolt World on the internet.

Second, getting the rudder out when seized was a lot of work and needed 2 of us pulling and twisting to get it to move so if it is tight you may need help.  It was also surprisingly heavy and really needed 2 of us to manhandle it but we have a stainless shaft so probably heavier than aluminium.

I must admit I don't like the idea of the rudder being loose or rattling at all so I'm happy with a snug fitting which still feels pretty smooth to me though if there is any further expansion I suppose it will start to seize again over time.  I also have two, I'm guessing PTFE, pads at the top bearing which are what the rudder hangs on, and seem to work well.

Thanks, Alan.
Hobo
Hanse 301
GBR 2996L
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2020 at 10:37
Yes I remember now I was getting rudder out on my own, everyone in yard gone home,  I had been working all day [knackered]  and I had to work rudder back and forth, it was getting beyond my strength so I got a pole[spinnaker I think] and lashed it to rudder blade, with this leverage and the weight of rudder I worked up a sweat but it dropped down onto a pad on a trestle. Yes its heavy but one man lift when you have to.
I'm suggesting that the tiny rattle you get from .1-.2 mm or 8 thou in old money you only feel when wobbling the tiller when static as soon as you sail and the rudder works in the flow you dont feel it. A stiff rudder is just awful, you feel it all the time you sail.

If yours is the same as mine you may not have to get new. The one I made for my mates Fulmar is still going strong after 40 yrs.
But the messageis if you get another made dont makeit too tight dont ever think it will wear in.
Good Luck
Perry

Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2020 at 21:38
thanks guys, for your input.
Perry, the material I have is left over from when I did the top bearing.. itís been designed specially for rudder bearing, so Iím hoping that the inbuilt dry lubricant wonít cause a problem.. the swelling with water absorption is less than the Delrin. 
The material is very easy to machine on my lathe, so once I have dropped the rudder off..
I presume I then use the wood to knock out the bearing from inside the stern locker? 
Then I can use it as a copy and measure the rudder shaft to get the inside tube diameter..
Cheers... I am just waiting in starting blocks waiting to be allowed over the border into Scotland.
😂😂😂
Dave
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2020 at 21:52
I would think the material you have will be OK.
However as you have time, I suggest just for peace of mind I would take the adhesive you intend to use [I used Sikaflex 291]  and make a test joint to the bearing material. If the inbuilt lubricant defeats the adhesive bonding, then think again on Delrin.
And my  repeat warning, the classic mistake is to not allow enough clearance!!.
Regards
Perry
Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2020 at 08:29
Having slept on your bearing problem.
I suggest if your material is of sufficient diameter, I would turn the OD to a top had shape with a 4-5mm thick flange about 16mm bigger than the diameter of the hole in hull. Make the OD a push fit into the hull [not too tight or the ID will shrink and tighten the fit on rudder shaft].  Put 3 or so self tapping countersunk A4 SS screws thru the flange and into the hull,  not to penetrate the hull!. This way if the adhesive has poor bonding to the bearing the bearing is retained from rotation.

In my own case I had a significant clearance between hull and bearing, When I disassembled it I found the cause of my stiff rudder was the bearing had seized on rudder shaft, then rotated balling up the adhesive and canting over the bottom bearing. So if you have inherent mis-alignment and you go for the above approach you may need to re-position the top bearing?

I floated the bearing in and fitted the rudder to allow the bearing to align as the Sikaflex curred. I have had no further problems in 5 years sailing.

Further observation is that my previous David Thomas designed yachts used a full length rudder tube from top of deck to bottom of hull,  top and bottom bearings are in one tube, big plus if the rudder falls out the yacht doesnt sink, the need for a half length tube may be to allow for fitting a wheel steering or authelm bellcrank. The solution to put self aligning delrin roller bearings for yachts under 40ft seems expensive solution to a problem. Bending of the 63mm solid Aluminium rudder stock unlikely to be the need for self aligning bearings?
Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2020 at 14:12
I have removed the bottom bearing from my 301, see photo.. I have again called upon the help of Vesconite and they are sending me a 30cm blank tube via Fedex, if fedex donít screw up, it should be with me in 5 days from South Africa.
A few days on the lathe in the barn, and I will have a new bearing. I will go with the same OD so it will have the same 🤞 fit as the old one.. and with adhesive allowed to dry before rudder is re fitted it should not rotate and also due to the strength and hardness of Vesconite, there will be little chance of the ID being compromised...  

Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2020 at 14:48
Hi Holby looks good. Most of my play came from wear on the Aluminium shaft.  my old Delrin bearing was only about .2mm clearance on the unworn shaft, about .5-.7mm on the worn area.  If yours Shaft is good that says to me that your choosen Vesconite material is better than my Delrin i.e. it doesnt preferentialy wear the shaft.
I had to make my replacement 120mm long to bear on the unworn shaft above the old worn area.
Anyway Bloto is all fixed and good setup with .15mm clearance.

Regards
Perry
Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2020 at 23:01
perry,
Many thanks for your advice, much appreciated 👍👍👍
Dave
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2020 at 20:56
well just received enough Vesconite to make a few bearings, itís gotta be about 450mm long
Now I will start on the lathe this weekend..

Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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