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Draft in Dutch Canals Sothern Part

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samuel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 July 2022 at 10:22
I am going to lead a cruise from our sailing club 21 August- 04 September this year to Ostend then into the Dutch canals. I want to take them in via Vlissengen & the Walcheren Canal. Stop at Middleburg,  Then move on to Zierikzee, Wilemstad, Dordrecht back to Goes then Breskens to re fuel & back to ostend.
Problem is that 2 of the boats could have draft issues
One is a 40 ft Jeneau with 2.1 draft. The other is a Hanse 445 which I believe is 2.23 draft

Can any of the Dutch sailors (or anyone with similar draft vessels who have been to these places) tell me if there will be any issues for these 2 boats in the following places:-

1) The Nieuwe Haven (or perhaps kalkhaven) in Dordrecht-
2) The public pontoon in Zierikzee (alongside "Nieuwe Haven" road)
3) The pontoon just outside the town marina in Goes (& for that matter the lock & the canal itself)
4) The marina in Middleburg-
5) The newer one, of the 2 marinas, in Willemstad

According to my records a lot of these places are listed as 1.83 depth. However, it is clear that boats with greater draft do move about in some of these areas

Any comments greatly apreciated, as I need to work out an interesting itinery for the cruise & i particularly wanted to go to these spots.

I did think about carrying on to Gouda, Harlem, Amsterdam (possibly the night route) & exiting at Ijmuiden, but I am concerned about draft in Alphen den Rijn, Gouda, Heemstede & Sparndam marinas


Edited by samuel - 15 July 2022 at 10:29
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Martin&Rene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin&Rene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2022 at 15:24
One of my brother's friend (a Brit) sails in the Netherlands and he says he will have a look at giving you some answers.  Do you know the air draft of the bigger yachts so he can check the fixed bridges as well?
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2022 at 16:18

Hi Samuel

As one old-timer to another, I suggest that you read my answers from a couple of years ago. The Dutch waters have not changed a lot since then.

Oostende:  The channel is 8 meters, and the Royal Belgian Yacht Club 2,7m.

Oostende-Zeebrugge  tidal stream +/- 1 knot. Zeebrugge-Vlissingen tidal stream +/- 2,6 knots!

Walcheren Kanaal 8m, Middelburg Buitenhaven max. draught 3,80m.

Zierikzee: The channel is 2,20m LAT, so the keel may touch at low tide, but it is tidal waters, so just wait 10 minutes! Geemeente Haven max. draught 3m. Nearest tidal station is Roompot, but beware that the tidal stream can be at a little different time. High water at Roompot 26/8 2022 is 3,10m at 15.04.

Krammersluis: NAP -1/+1,5dm waterlevel. Yachtsluis max. draught 2m and mastheight 18,3-18,6m (see your SMR – “Staande Mast Route” for height and VHF channel when larger boats shall report to the sluismaster to pass through the commercial sluis). Beware of  NAP in the yachtsluis for masts above 18 meters! (Normaal Amsterdam Peil).

Volkerak sluis: As above but max draught in yachtsluis 5m.

Willemstad: Both marinas > 2,6m.

Dordrecht Niewe Haven max. draught 2,70m. Wait for the bridge to lift for entrance to the harbour (SMR).

Goes (Read my old answer Samuel!) is in a tidal area but behind  a sluis, so the two largest yachts may go to Wemeldingen and go by bus or taxi to Goes.

Remember that a friendly call to the harbourmaster by telephone can be helpful if one does not sound like a smartass!

The data can be found in C-Map MAX European Inland Waters M-EW-M018.50 (may 2021).

I wish you a pleasant tour!

Sailors Salute

:Kjeld



Edited by Captain Cook - 18 July 2022 at 16:42
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2022 at 18:10
Thanks for that. Our cruises have been delayed due to Covid & i am being hassled by members who say that they think that they cannot go as there will not be enough water. I cannot get my head round the NAP thing & I have no access to tide times in Dutch anyway. But does one need it for a canal?

I see that one uses Normal Amsterdam Peil (datum based on mean sea level)
But Amsterdam is up a canal so one assumes it never changes
Or does it?

So when one says "Krammersluis: NAP -1/+1,5dm,  how do I know if it is going to be high or low.
And why bother quoting NAP, why just not say 2M -1/+1,5dm?

Or is there some other calculation & does one need to know the tide times, except of course, for tidal areas. & where do I take the calculation from? Ideally I need to be able to use a coastal one that I can get from Reeds in English.
 I have been up & down the canals loads of times & never had a clue what the flow will be  doing.


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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2022 at 18:19
Originally posted by Martin&Rene Martin&Rene wrote:

One of my brother's friend (a Brit) sails in the Netherlands and he says he will have a look at giving you some answers.  Do you know the air draft of the bigger yachts so he can check the fixed bridges as well?

Thanks
I have emailed them for an answer. However, I do not think mast height is an issue, rather than where to stop without running aground
I want to take them all to places that represent pleasant Dutch areas that one can enjoy for a couple of days, before moving on & the places I mention represent a fair mix.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2022 at 21:43
Hi Samuel
I agree that in most cases you can ignore NAP, but if the yachtsluis is 18,6m, let all yachts with masts over 18m use the commercial locks. When leaving the commercial lock, keep your moorings in place until the big commercial rafts have left the lock. Sometimes they like to make a lot of waves with their big propellers. As for tidal streams, it will be most important around Vlissingen. When you make 6 knots through the water, the SOG can be 3,4 or 8,6 knots depending on the tidal stream. If you give me an estimate of your arrival at Vlissingen, I will give you the time when the tide is turning. If you then are early or delayed, just reduce or add 12h25min for the next tideshift. As for the Zierikzee channel, just go for it, worst case scenario is a grounding of less than half an hour. If you continue the Staande Mast Route via Haarlem to Amsterdam, there will be no problems with the draft in the channels. As for the marinas, I know that you have purchased the Wateralmanak 1+2, where all marinas are mentioned, see the draft there.
As Admiral of the Fleet you surely have planned for the passage of the railwaybridges, which only opens once per day? Arriving 5 minutes late is not going to humour the sailors.
S to N:
Railway Dordrecht 06.12, Railway Gouda 12.27, Schinkelbruggen 00.19, Oranjesluis 04.00.
All to be found also in the Wateralmanak and SMR.
(This link is genuine, but the information is NOT genuine, se Wateralmanak 2 or SMR for openings).



Edited by Captain Cook - 22 July 2022 at 11:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2022 at 08:04
Thanks
We will only go as far as Dordrecht so we can get back to Ostend to have our passports stamped for exit from the schengan zone (brexit you knowWink)
We will go Ostend, then  Breskens to fuel after our crossing from UK & all boats will be together. Then following day cross to Flushing. I do know about the tides(I learned the hard way) & crossing the shipping lane & the ferry that suddenly appears from behind
I am disappointed that we cannot get everyone to Goes. It was one of the highlights back in the 70s being moored next to the lighthouse in my little yacht. I want to build a copy of the lighthouse in my garden as a feature,(complete with flashing light & toilet)  but the wife threatens divorce if I do. Climbing the tower in Veere when it had stone steps nearly  to the top was hard work. The wooden ones make it a lot easier now.  I always take any crew up there, like it or not. It is mandatory if they come with me Big smile
I recall the tide rushing us past Kortgene so quick, that we went twice as fast sideways as forwards, such we had problems avoiding buoys. No tide now, to talk of anyway.

As for the Wateralmanak 1+2 none of us can read it so we will just buy book 1 to be legal (Yes I have had 1 & 2 for years )  & leave it on board each boat in case a customs officer asks to see it. Useless as it is for us though.

All I really need to know is whether or not I can get the largest boat into the places I mentioned in my post items 1-5 with a simple yes or no the rest is easy. Apart from there being spaces, of course, which will be another problem


Edited by samuel - 19 July 2022 at 08:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2022 at 08:29
Originally posted by Martin&Rene Martin&Rene wrote:

One of my brother's friend (a Brit) sails in the Netherlands and he says he will have a look at giving you some answers.  Do you know the air draft of the bigger yachts so he can check the fixed bridges as well?


I now have the details
One boat has a draft of 2.3M & an air draft of 21 M length 13.9 M & beam of 4.38 M
The other one has a draft of 2.00 M & an air draft of 19M length 12.5 M
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2022 at 08:48
Originally posted by Captain Cook Captain Cook wrote:

Railway Dordrecht 06.12,
According to my book " cruising guide to the netherlands" the railway & road bridges at Dordrecht open every2 Hour 24 hours per day with an air draft of 44 M
I have never had to wait more than 1 hour
Are you saying that has now changed?
I know the one at Schipol is early morning. In fact time can vary by as much as an hour because it opened an hour early when I went through years ago when doing the night route.
The one at Gouda used to open 3 times a day. The one just before the north sea canal coming from Harlem was always a long wait if one missed it,,
R r


Edited by samuel - 19 July 2022 at 09:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2022 at 12:14
As always, one have to be suspicious about any information recieved from the internet. The link in my post is genuine, but the information seems not to be correct.
In the "Staande Mastroute" Dordrecht Spoorhefbrug opens at 6.12, 9.12, 11.12, 13.12, 15.12, 17.12, 19.12, 21.12 and 23.12.
Spoorbruggen te Gouda opens at 5.56, 10.28, 12.28, 14.28, 20.28 and 22.28 for yachts.
There are openings at 8.28, 16.28 and 18.28 for commercial traffic, in "SM" there is a phone number with a text in dutch saying something like "moored sailing yachts-good word-connect-2 hours before-phonecall" - maybe it means that there is a chance to pass if commercial traffic is light.
(Google translate may help). I donated my Wateralmanak 2 to a fellow sailor, so I can not check there, but check in your own copy.
The important thing is that it is a waste of time to arrive at the Gouda bridge in the 6 hours span between 14.28 and 20.28.

In 2015  my wife and I were sailing through Gouda in direction Alpen A/D Rijn. Staying overnight near Boskoop, we were informed, that the Julianabrug bridge was closed because an accident had occurred, while 2 cranes were changing the bridge flap. I tuned my television to the dutch channels, and saw two large mobile cranes on tenders lifting the flap. The tenders (unbelievingly) had no supporting legs, and when one crane started to slide, both cranes and the flap fell into the water. 23 people were injured, and a bystander died of a heart attack. Since the channel was expected to be closed for several weeks, we decided to exit to the North Sea via Rotterdam. Together with our newly found dutch friends Joop and Josie on "Bumblebee" we sailed from Boskoop to the North Sea. Josie was equipped with several pages of handwritten tidal information and bridge opening times, and entering "Maas Control" area in Rotterdam she had a constant dialogue via VHF with the control tower, on the progress of our passage of the busy Rotterdam harbour. Soon our convoy had grown to five larger yachts, manuevering between very large freighters in the colossal harbour.

Just like last time, (before Covid) when Samuel asked for advice about the dutch channels, I notice an absence of answers from dutch sailors. They should know their channels better than I do?


Edited by Captain Cook - 22 July 2022 at 20:50
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