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Draft in Dutch Canals Sothern Part

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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2022 at 13:45
Interesting that you mention the closure at Alphen aan Rijn. The wife & i were at Gouda & left heading south on our way home. We arrived at the big flood barrier & lock with the big bridge just before the junction where one turns right to go to Rotterdam. (forget the name) We waited for the lock to open & after a long wait my wife called the operator to be told it had shut that day for 1 month. Some friends travelling with us in a motorboat gave us their spare fuel & they were able to carry on south under the bridge. We had to go back to Ijmuiden.
My wife refused to sail back across the N sea & flew home. Unbeknown to me she had arranged for my son & a friend to fly out. But they only had a weekend so we were forced to leave as soon as they arrived. We hit F7 then F8 then for a while F9. I was seriously sea sick & one of the cans of fuel our friends had given us leaked its contents into the boat making the cabin into a skating rink. That trod into the cockpit & we could hardly stand it was so slippery.
We eventually made Lowestoft and my wife collected us & I left the boat for a week before returning to clean up the fuel & the smell did not go for ages. I made the decision to lay the boat up for the winter to air it out.
It seems that there are regular closures to the canals & one has to keep an eye out for notices. However, not speaking Dutch makes it difficult for us ignorant English.
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2022 at 23:22
My chartplotter is a Simrad NX40, some 14 years old. It uses C-map MAX charts which are on the verge of being discontinued. Shame, because the plotter and charts are very good. There are photos and information on harbours, tidal stations and tidal streams and I have the C-map PC-Planner, a gizmo to connect the SD chart to the PC for route planning. With this tool I can find the best time to sail from Zeebrugge to Vlissingen (15Nm) without fighting the tidal stream.
If you sail from Oostende to Vlissingen on the 23/8 2022, it tells, that from outside Zeebrugge the current turns in your favor from 0700GMT until 1230GMT. To gain the most of the current, it is adviced to pass the port of Zeebrugge around 0900GMT. Latest at 1000GMT. The strongest current of 2,6 knots happens between 1000 and 1100GMT. (If your watch is DST add one hour).
If you sail one day later, add 50 minutes to the abovementioned hours.
(If you want to compare the tide to the tidal stream, the Vlissingen tide station for the 23/8 shows low water at 0430GMT and high water at 1100GMT).
When you leave Vlissingen say the 2/9 2022, the tidal stream is outgoing from 0700GMT to 1300GMT. Do not leave Vlissingen later than 1000GMT.
As for the two larger yachts and the visit to Goes, I suppose that Admiral Nelson (a british?) would have thought that this was a very tiny problem? They can easily park their yachts in Wemeldingen, and share a taxi the 4 miles to Goes.
I have been to the Netherlands with my H400, sticking 2 meters down and 20 meters up, and just like in most countries there are challenges with finding harbours deep enough. Writing this, I sit in the Swedish harbour of Lomma, where I had to make a S-maneuvre to avoid the sand in the entrance to the harbour. Luckily one of the few moorings wide enough for my boat was free, so we will stay for a few days. When we leave I will check the depht, because sometimes my keel is drawing a line in the sand on the bottom.
:Kjeld


Edited by Captain Cook - 22 July 2022 at 23:44
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2022 at 07:02
I have a dislike for chart plotters. I have mine principally for the AIS function. The first time I sailed around the UK I hit nothing & had no chart plotter. Just Reeds & some Imray C charts. The second time I had a chart plotter & hit a rock Cry. I almost hit some near Roscoff when it malfunctioned a few years later.
So Reeds for the tides & a decent up to date chart serves me very well thankyou. I have done the Breskens Ostend trip many times. I learned about the tide early in the 70s when I sailed for 4 hours from Breskens & ended up in-- Breskens Confused. Navigation is half the fun of sailing. Especially in the Thames estuary where I am based. That is not to say that I have not hit lots of sand banks over the years. But as they say, You leave your mark in a sand bank. A rock leaves it mark in you.
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2022 at 18:59
I have a sailor friend in an Olsen 31, who swears to the durability if his 40 year old Garmin with the grey "motorway" screen. AIS is a city in Siberia, and he carries a handheld VHF, only because I sold it to him at a bargain price. Yachts cruising the North Sea or Dutch channels may need more equipment though.
We agree that Vlissingen and Breskens are places with strong tidal currents, but also the Oosterschelde is tidal area. The currents near Zierikzee, Willemstad and Wemeldinge seldom exceeds 1Ĺ knot but anyway.....
The Maas area with Rotterdam until Niewe Maas and Dordrecht has currents like Vlissingen, so why use a lot of diesel to fight the current, when all you need is a watch to avoid the struggle.
The calculation is simple: With a speed of 6 knots through the water (SPD), the speed over ground near Vlissingen (SOG) can vary between 3 and 9 knots. For a voyage of 5 hours that means you have travelled either 15 or 45 Nm. With the price of diesel nowadays, the choice should be easy.
Since most cruising in the channels is by the iron sail, I would inquire if some of the participants had C-map or another brand with prediction of tidal currents. Cruising would be easier then.


Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Rock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2022 at 12:03
Hi Samuel,

Sorry to see no current reply from the Dutch/local  contingent.

While I can sail many Dutch routes (inland and offshore) practically with my eyes closed, the area you are asking about I really donít know from experience. Typically sailing past that area when going south or coming back. Doing so as I type, after 2 weeks in Cornwall and Channel Islands.

Perhaps  it wonít help much, but what I do in case of doubt about draft,  as far as charts go, is use the Navionics app (in addition to CM93 charts in opencpn  on the laptop and navionics on the plotter) on my iPads, specifically the sonar charts that are based on community input (automatic uploads from depthsounders from users), inland without tide is dead easy, and when using the option with the tide slider, it works also brilliantly when at sea, outside.
I cannot think of more up to date chart/depth information.


Other than that, I believe Kjelds previous input is rather accurate.

When you have specific questions about the northern half of NL,  Iím your man SmileTongue

Hope youíll have a great trip !
Peter 
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
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Rock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2022 at 10:30
Originally posted by Rock Rock wrote:

Hi Samuel,

Sorry to see no current reply from the Dutch/local  contingent.

While I can sail many Dutch routes (inland and offshore) practically with my eyes closed, the area you are asking about I really donít know from experience. Typically sailing past that area when going south or coming back. Doing so as I type, after 2 weeks in Cornwall and Channel Islands.

Perhaps  it wonít help much, but what I do in case of doubt about draft,  as far as charts go, is use the Navionics app (in addition to CM93 charts in opencpn  on the laptop and navionics on the plotter) on my iPads, specifically the sonar charts that are based on community input (automatic uploads from depthsounders from users), inland without tide is dead easy, and when using the option with the tide slider, it works also brilliantly when at sea, outside.
I cannot think of more up to date chart/depth information.


Other than that, I believe Kjelds previous input is rather accurate.

When you have specific questions about the northern half of NL,  Iím your man Smile

Hope youíll have a great trip !
Peter 
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2022 at 23:14
thanks but although I have seen it mentioned on other forums I do not have a clue whatĒopen cpn .Ēmeans.
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2022 at 09:17
Hi Samuel
It is a free open source chartplotter navigation program, it can be downloaded from opencpn.org.
The worldwide CM93 charts can be purchased from Jeppesen Marine, but in the the cruising community there is a hacked version ("free") circulating with maps from 2005. With opencpn that gives you charts for the whole world. The CM93 was originally circulated with a hacked version of the program "Maxsee", but cruisers had problems with this hacked version, because as protection of their copyrighted software, Maxsee had changed the number of bytes in the important Windows file "command.com". This gave problems for some blue water cruisers which had the hacked version of Maxsee as their sole navigation program.
The opencpn can read a number of chart formats, and it is possible to download free charts which are really "free", (and not hacked) from many sources.
Very interesting is also opencpn's pilot charts for the whole world. A little old fashioned compared to the pilot charts sold by Jimmy Cornell, but completely free of charge.


Edited by Captain Cook - 12 August 2022 at 08:17
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Brufan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brufan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2022 at 11:59
Samuel,

As a "local week end resident" just some rules :
- Don't try to sail Westerschelde especially arriving to Vlissingen against tide (doable but boring with the wind / undoable against tide & fresh winds)
- Havenkanaal Goes is dredged to 2,20 m sometimes more.  The deeper yacht of your rally will not have access to the marina in GOES city but could eventually stay just before the main city bridge
- Due to height clearance (more than 18,5 m or so), you can only use commercial locks (set with lifting bridges) at Krammersluizen and Volkeraksluizen 

Enjoy your stay
Bruno

hanse 355 - 57

S/Y Spicy Ginger

White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system (modifications done now), Simrad-Jefa autopilot.
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