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Excessive rudder play

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FalParsi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 March 2021 at 14:36
Good afternoon everyone,

My new to me 2016 H505 has just been hauled out. When holding the rudder blade at the bottom I am able to move the rudder for at least 10cm left and right. In doing so the whole lower bearing ring moves, so it doesn’t seem that the bearings are worn. That would also be strange since the boat was sailed in 2016 from Greifswald to Hamble and directly to Malta. After that it did 3 trips to the south of Sicily and back, and not more than a handful of daytrips to one of Malta’s bays (15NM round trips), so she has seen extremely light use. When moving the rudder back and forth both steering wheels also shake pretty badly. Can this be solved by adding a spacer ring somewhere along the GRP tube?

Any insight is greatly appreciated!
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 17:04
I think it's a serious problem to be investigated thorougly. In my 588, there is absolutely no play, and any movement of the rudder is promptly transmitted to the wheels in the cockpit without any play, just the helasticity of the wires to delay the movement a bit. Also, very little friction whatsoever... 

Edited by Pzucchel - 14 March 2021 at 17:04
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 17:09
My instinct is that this is bad news, and a serious problem. My rudder had play as well, much closer to 2-3mm at bottom of rudder. I was able to resolve the problem by replacing the bearings, which I did myself at anchor by weighting the rudder and dropping it out of the hull. Once done, replacing the bearings is very quick and requires no tools, thanks to Jefa's clever design. Solved my problem. 

However, mine had more than 30K nm, and the bearings were clearly worn.  Yours sounds like a much more serious problem if the whole bottom housing is able to move within the tube. Did you, or someone else, make contact with the bottom? My feeling is that the bottom bearing housing doesn't "wear out" slowly like bearings,  but rather "breaks" all at once.  I'm not exactly sure how the housing is fastened within the tube, hopefully it isn't too painful to repair.

I would imagine the wheel shake will take care of itself when this problem is resolved.

I would contact Jefa directly. I did when I was inquiring about my rudder bearing, and they gave excellent advice. First thing I would send them is a video of the movement of the housing. 

Good luck, sorry about your problem.
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FalParsi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalParsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 17:25
Thank you both for your reply. I agree it appears serious. I have not sailed her at all, apart from the sea trial. There is absolutely no evidence on the rudder (or keel for that matter) of any grounding, so the reason as to the origin of the problem is a mystery. The PO is both not technically inclined nor an avid sailor, and he has no explanation for this. The plan now is to drop the rudder soonest and investigate further. I will send Jefa an email with videos. Ohthetrees: is there anyone there you recommend I contact, or should I just send it to their service department?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 18:00
I spoke to Thor. Send me a private message, and I'll give you his email address. There are also technical documents on their website, you might download some of those regarding their bearing systems, and see what you see. But unless you are exceptionally handy, I have a feeling you will be needing some professional assistance, regardless. Hopefully your purchase agreement puts the seller at an obligation to finance the fix, or alternatively, you can back out of the purchase.

Regarding the rudder, if the previous owner backed the boat into a sand bottom, it might not mark the rudder, but could easily over-load the rudder and damage it. The previous owner might have been lying to you, or perhaps he didn't even notice. If it was a soft bottom, it might not make a big noise, yet still damage the bearing housing. Perhaps there is even an innocent explanation, I don't know how the bearing housing is fastened, maybe it came loose through a minor build fault, and needs little more than re-bedding. 
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FalParsi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalParsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 18:06
Right after I sent the previous message I sent an email to Mr. Singh at the Jefa service department. Within 30 minutes, on a Sunday, he wrote back that he received my email and the videos sent through wetransfer, and that he forwarded it to the right person called Jan. Amazing service so far. Now awaiting Jan’s reply. Will keep you posted.
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 19:06
I can't believe it could be grounding, the forces to damage a rudder are very important and they would surely lead to outside damage of the structure. Maybe some wrong transportation of the boat? I never thought about it, but a rope or chain getting in contact with the rudder, and the weight of the boat or the wind does the rest? 

Very interesting, good luck and in Jefa we trust! 


Edited by Pzucchel - 14 March 2021 at 19:08
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kipwrite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipwrite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 21:22
Good luck with this. 
I’d have a look at the steering cables as well. While loose cables will not likely cause any play in the rudder, they will cause the wheels and rudder to shake as you describe. If the prior owner was not diligent, it’s possible the steering cables are quite loose. 
Unscrew the four screws holding down the hatch above the autopilot and quadrant, remove the hatch, and you’ll see the quadrant, cables, and the top of the rudder post. If you press down on the cables they should not deflect very much. You might also rattle the rudder while peeking at the top of the quadrant and rudder post - this might give the Jeffa folks more clues. 

I suspect your bearings are worn or they are not seated properly in the tube. 


Edited by kipwrite - 14 March 2021 at 21:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yeoey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 09:59
hi,

Sounds like electrolysis issue - see Jefa info https://www.jefa.com/install/electro.htm

Don’t think it will be bearings given the way they are installed - but rather than guess just  remove the rudder as per the excellent Jefa video and all will be revealed.the bottom bearing area is probably where all the play will be as the top of the shaft is fixed n its tubing, 
The good thing is you are out of the water and can fix the problem.

Peter 
Peter
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FalParsi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalParsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 12:55
So I sent four videos to Jan Faurschou at Jefa who confirmed that the lower bearing is broken. Absolutely great service from Jefa. Later today the rudder will be dropped and we can see if there are other issues connected to this. Will keep you posted.
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