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Fire extinguisher - where do place

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thomas26 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 April 2021 at 09:51
Hi all, I will take over my new Hanse 348 in a few days directly in Greifswald.
From W&R I ordered delivery and installation of an automatic fire distinguished inside the Engine compartment.
My question is now, where should I install further fire extinguisher (CO2) in salon an cabins.
Does anyone has an advice for me.
thomas from Berlin

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thomas26 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thomas26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2021 at 09:53
Fire extinguisher 🧯! I hate auto correction 😬
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Ratbasher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2021 at 11:15
Thomas - I suggest that rather than focussing on just one element of fire safety you take an overall view, a 'fire safety audit' if you will.   Go into each compartment - and the cockpit - and consider all the 'what if' hazards in all areas of the boat from the perspective of being in that particular compartment.  Bear in mind that fires may start in unexpected areas; I had a small fire in the lazarette caused by a short in the 12v supply to the AIS with molten plastic dropping onto tins of paint on a shelf.  Several lessons learned there.

Work out what actions or equipment you might do or need to escape or tackle a fire from that location and this will guide you towards both where to place an extinguisher and very importantly, what type of extinguisher or other device to have there.  For example, while CO2 is effective on electrical fires, its use in an enclosed space could be lethal if used in enough volume.  As CO2 doesn't remove heat, a fire may re-ignite.  While powder is effective it will cause an almighty mess; not necessarily an issue against saving a life but if you're at sea this could further affect your ability to sail or navigate safely.  Extend your thinking to a serious fire down below when you're in the cockpit at sea and work through the issues.  

For what its worth on my own boat I keep Aqueous Foam in a cockpit locker for fuel fires on deck/refuelling and as means of immediately attacking a fire down below from the cockpit.  Each compartment has a bulkhead-mounted powder extinguisher where they can easily be grabbed and auto-gas in both the engine space and behind the electrical panel.  However, I'll probably change some to Firesticks this season; have a look at: What Is The Fire Safety Stick? - YouTube.  There's a fire blanket by the galley and all the hatches are marked by day-glo tape, as well as near the decks below the hatches as you could be crawling for air there should there be much smoke.  Similar to those on aircraft, these markings might also be particularly valuable to someone unfamiliar with boats.  Three smoke, one CO and one gas monitor complete the fit.

Risk is described as 'likelihood x effect' and we all have to make our individual assessments of what is acceptable to us; just having fire extinguishers placed where others might have them might potentially ruin your entire day.  Sorry if this comes over as a bit of a lecture and maybe 'over the top' but as a former submariner I freely admit to taking fire safety extremely seriously.  I've experienced several at sea on various types of vessel and nothing, not floods or lee shores, concerns me more.

Thankfully, such dramas remain extremely rare!  Good luck with your new boat and welcome to the forum.  Its far from the 'doom and gloom' picture I may have painted and I hope you find it as valuable as I've done.

H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport, UK.



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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2021 at 18:48
I have a 2 times 2 kg FE in the cockpit locker ( acc. to regulation ). I have the single aft cabin version.
One FE is in easy reach from the cockpit, the other is right at the access from the shower compartment.
In addition to these I have a "big" firestick at the companionway right beside the FE opening. one smaller at the nav station and one each in aft and forecabin
Frank
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2021 at 20:09
I probably overdid. 

Apart from 2x 2kg extinguishers in the saloon, and 3x ABC extinguishers in the cabins, all visible and labeled with florescent labels, I have an automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room (main engine and panda generator) that will release halogen as soon as the temperature exceeds a certain threshold. I also have put a fire blanket right at the entrance above the stairs, to be rapidly accessible both from the kitchen area and the outside. Admittedly, I also have a large Lifepo4 installation of 11kWh that is potentially more dangerous than a small battery pack and I am preparing my 588 for the world arc 2022.

I also have three smoke detectors, that also monitor carbon monoxide, installed in the engine compartment, saloon and main cabin.

For completeness, the sail locker where I have two large batteries, the watermaker and the windlass is uncovered for fire events but in any case I don't expect anybody to be there anyway...so we will have to get the extinguishers from the cabin. 


Edited by Pzucchel - 04 April 2021 at 21:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2021 at 22:04
There is no such thing as overdoing when we talk about fire protection in our boats.
In my 400 there is 3x 2 kg (at pantry+ 2 cabins) and 2x 6kg (aft sail locker+by the mast foot support). All ABC. The 6kg in the sail locker can be reached both from the cockpit and the pantry. Also a fire blanket in the pantry. 12V gas alarm as well.
I assume that all Hanse 370/400 owners know, that the little hole (with wooden cover) in the engine compartment lid (behind the steps) is for the extuinguisher nozzle?
If you extinguish an eventual engine fire by using this little hole, you may still have eyebrows and moustache after the incident is over  Ouch.




Edited by Captain Cook - 04 April 2021 at 22:19
Freya Hanse400 #27 from 2006, 40HP Yanmar 3JH4E, Teak deck, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 00:40
Thanks for pointing out the Fire Sticks.  I went to a safety day at my yacht club last year and we practised using extinguishers, but no mention of these. Look like a great idea to supplement the regular extinguishers.
H458 #159 Primal launching May 2021
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kipwrite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipwrite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 12:41
In the US, fire sticks carry the Element 50 (50 seconds) or Element 100 brand.
Thanks for posting on this product. Seems like a good addition.
Kipwrite
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 14:05
Ho to all,

Not my usual attitude, but I am very skeptic after having "studied" the mechanism of action of fire sticks. Are the  certified as fire extinguisher means? What are their extinguishing capabilities? The amount of time they are active is meaningless, what matters is how much they are effective in stopping ignition of flammable materials and how effective they are in reducing power (energy /time) of combustion. 

Comment :i am probably the earliest adopter of any technology you may think of! 


Hanse588#55
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350Bob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 350Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 15:20
I am afraid that I agree, I really would like to feel confident  about the fire safety sticks, they are so compact, light weight and easy to store, but looking on their website I am not impressed with the certifications. The tests to certify extinguishing capacity on the the various fire classifications are far more stringent than any of the certifications I could find.

I really like the idea of the fire sticks, I may even buy some to have in addition to my other equipment, but I certainly wouldn’t be relying on them alone.
H350 #205
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