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AdventureModeOn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 May 2017 at 12:47
Hi
I'm wanting to buy a yacht to live on, sail around the med and eventually the World with my girlfriend. We've looked at all sorts and we've fallen in love with the Hanse 540.

We're actively looking to buy one but we've come across such a difference in price range. They all seem to be either 2007 or 2008 with roughly the same spec but they range from £150K to £290K. This seems quite extreme to have such a variation.

I have a few questions if you can help me.

Does anyone have any experience as to why this variation might be the case?
And does anyone have any advice about buying our first Hanse 540?
What should we look for? What should we avoid? What do we need to make sure is in good condition on the boat? And what is not so important?

We don't mind getting our hands dirty so we're not afraid of minor fixes or cosmetic work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Looking forward to joining the Hanse community.

Sam and Sarah x
Let the adventure begin!
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SausalitoDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SausalitoDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 15:43
Welcome, my first comment, as a 505 owner, is that a 540 is a big yacht for two to handle in blue water sailing. Everything is big, especially the sails.  In any emergency, you will want more crew than two.  But, you probably know that.

Best wishes.  

Dave
Festina Lente
Hanse 505
Sausalito, CA US

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Wayne's World View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 21:18
Sam & Sarah,

If your look at used boats of any of the large Hanse you will find a large variation in prices. A friend was interested in a used 575 recently and when I looked boats ranged from USA950K to E350K. The large range was caused mostly by 1. tax paid or not paid, 2. options fitted and lastly 3. the owners wanting more than the market value. 

1. The "tax paid/tax not paid" is an understandable variation.

2. The difference in options fitted and layout are important to you because I would assume you would prefer a non charter version which would normally mean 3 double cabins and the large  forepeak storage area rather than the optional skippers cabin. The base price of a 575 when we bought was E390 ex VAt but with options the realistic price was more like E500 ex VAT.
3. Some owners are unrealistic when it comes to putting a price on their pride and enjoy. Eventually when the boat doesn't sell they may see sense and price to "meet the market". 

I would seek the services of a good surveyor to check out any boat that catches your interest. A good surveyor is worth the money when you are about to part with E200K+. 

If you are keen to cruise in comfort I think you need a boat of a size that you can add the equipment you need like watermaker, good size generator, dive gear , water toys etc so a 50ft+boat is probably the better option.  

Most of the Hanse models feature a performance sail plan and as such you need to be conservative when cruising - reef early watch for gusting conditions in the MED. 

Lots of people cruise boats the size of 540 with only two people over distances needing 2-4 day over night voyages. Once you get to longer trips a 3rd or 4th experienced person on board is an advantage.

Enjoy the search for your boat.  
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdventureModeOn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 21:52
Thanks for the advice. Really interesting.
We'll definitely want people with us for the oceans but we rather like that we've been told that it's meant to be easy to sail single handed.
We appreciate your comment though.
Let the adventure begin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdventureModeOn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 22:04
Hi Wayne
Thank you for all of that info.
Do you know if there is an organisation for surveyors? Somewhere we can find one with a recognised kite mark or stamp of approval?
And have you had experience with things like a watermaker? Do they use lots of energy? Would we just be burning fuel to make water? Or are there solar panels or wind turbines out there that are powerful enough to run them?
I definitely want dive gear on board as I'm a Divemaster. I'd love a small compressor to fill a tank but not sure how small I can get one.
Will let you know when we find the one!
Let the adventure begin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 16:17
Sam & Sarah,

Firstly you can find Surveyors who are certified by various groups in different countries depending on where you find the boat or boats which meet your requirements which you want surveyed. You could use a Surveyor from the UK but the expense of having the surveyor go to Croatia for example to survey a boat would be much higher than getting a surveyor from Croatia. Normally you would look for a boat which meets your needs as far as price, age, options, equipment etc and take a look for yourself to see if the condition is as suggested by the agent or owner and if all is then well you would engage a surveyor. Normally as part of the survey the boat would be lifted out of the water at your cost so the surveyor could assess the hull, keel, rudder and fitting etc. So you want to be sure that a particular boat is suitable for you before you pay for the lifting and surveyor.

Watermakers - generally considered an expensive pain in the a... by some owners and an essential PITA
by others. In the MED you can easily get away with out a WM but long distance cruising I would suggest most boats have them - the smaller the boat the small the unit and therefore less power required to run same. In some areas of the MED the fresh water is not considered drinkable whilst in some other areas you pay for water  - between E3 -E10 per 1,000 liters. If the local water in not drinkable and you don't have a WM you need to buy a lot of bottled water for drinking, cooking etc.

A lot of the WM run on DC power so can be run from batteries which are in turn recharged by your engine or solar panels, wind generator, water generator or a generator (genset). The normal size WM for a 50+ft boat would be around 60 ltr per hour. Some owners go for units up to 100 ltr per hour. Roughly a 60 ltr per hour WM consumes about 26-30 amp 12V whilst making water depending on the type.
With just 2 people on board during summer we would use about 100 ltrs per day for showering, cooking and washing clothes* etc. Some people will use less and if you don't have washing machine on board you would use less. So every 2-3 days you need to run your WM for about 4 hours. If you are motor sailing or just motoring you can run your WM then whilst the alternator on you engine is providing the power. Obviously if you are going into marinas or town quays you can often top up your FW then and will not need to run your WM. Obviously the more people you have on board the more FW you use. 
* Washing machine- if you don't have one and you are on board for more than 1-2 weeks then you would need to go to a marina or town quay and get you clothes etc washed. In some instances you end up going into a marina and paying E120 - E140 (Italy, France, Croatia) for a night so you can wash your clothes plus the cost to do the washing (around E12) and sit at the laundry and watch your clothes go round and round for a few hours. In some ports there are laundry services who will pick up, wash, dry etc you clothes, towles and bed linen etc and deliver back to the boat. As you could imagine his can in some places be very expensive. So although some sailors will scoff at the idea of having a washing machine on board your your partner will love you for it. There is also a big difference to spending a month or so on the boat in summer in the MED than 12 months on board.      

Dive compressor - The German company, Bauer make a "Junior" HP dive compressor with a 230V AC motor which can be started and run by a 4Kva generator. The Junior is rated at about 2.3lcu ft/min so will take about 25-30 minutes to fill a normal tank from say 30 bar to 220 bar. Bauer will also supply a DC powered by a petrol motor but you need to put this on deck to run and of course make sure the air inlet hose is up wind and well away from the petrol motor exhaust. These DC weigh about 56kg so not the most portable thing around. They are also expensive. I haven't bought one for a long time but I assume the cost would be around E3,000 -E4,000. 

Genset (generator) - many people get by without a generator by having various other options to recharge your house bank of batteries. These various options include as mention above the drive motor alternator, solar panels, wind generator/s and water generators. Your boat would also need to have a good size inverter for you to run the 230v AC equipment on board like - dive compressor, washing/drier machine, vacuum cleaner, micro wave, coffee machine hair driers etc. Remember if you are living full time on board and cruising you need to think of the boat as house on the water that leans over. Some or a lots of sailors would suggest you don't need all this "stuff" and I would agree if I were only using the boat for a month or a few months in the MED but full time (including winter)I think it is a different story. Note:- to start and run a dive compressor or washing/drier you would need a generator or a large inverter and a large amount of battery capacity.

So when you are looking for your 540 to go long term cruising I would look for boats with at least a reasonable size generator - around 6-8 kva as a minimum, plenty of refrigeration and a freezer, electric winches,a good size anchor (about 45 kg good design) and plenty of chain (100 meters or more) and a WM would be a good option but one can be fitted later reasonably easily (but at a reasonably high cost for the unit). This would be on top of a boat that has the layout you want (number of cabins, heads etc) and the general condition you are happy with.  

If you are going to take the boat long term, long distance cruising you need to consider -

1. You can't easily make a small boat larger in terms of fuel  and water capacity or have extra space for dive gear, dive compressor, water maker and other water toys.
2. You can always down power/ de-power a larger boat under sail.
3. The cost of summer berthing/marinas in the a lot of the MED can be expensive of a larger boat.    
4. A Hanse is easier to sail single handed but I think they are difficult to sail long distances single handed mainly because of their performance. Most insurance companies are not happy about single handed sailing overnight. However for two experienced people I would think a Hanse is easy to sail long distances however a more "traditional" style boat (ie slower and less powerful) is always going to be easier to do long distances on although at a slower pace.
5. When in the MED most cruisers would find, on average, that you sail fro about 33% of your traveling, motor for 33% and motor sail for about 33% of the time. So as far as burning diesel you are already doing that so running a water maker etc is not a problem.  When you get into trade wind areas (outside the MED) those percentages would change but you would probably do more motoring than you at first think you would.
6. Groups like CA (Cruising Assoc UK) often run cruising seminars which would probably worthwhile attending. These are sometime run in conjunction with boat shows as well.  

You will probably get other quiet different suggestions on what to you should have on board and what sort of boat you should get but the above of course is just my opinion.  

Enjoy the adventure in whatever boat you choose and where you end up taking her.
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdventureModeOn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 07:16
Hi Wayne
You are a fountain of knowledge good sir.
We need to take you for a drink sime day - or rather have you join us at home on OUR yacht for a drink!
Thank you so much for taking the time to write in such detail. We take on board (excuse the pun) everything you say.
All the best.
Sam and Sarah
Let the adventure begin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 15:35
Originally posted by AdventureModeOn AdventureModeOn wrote:

Hi
I'm wanting to buy a yacht to live on, sail around the med and eventually the World with my girlfriend. We've looked at all sorts and we've fallen in love with the Hanse 540.
....
Does anyone have any experience as to why this variation might be the case?
And does anyone have any advice about buying our first Hanse 540?
What should we look for? What should we avoid? What do we need to make sure is in good condition on the boat? And what is not so important?


Hi!

Someone already describe the reasons for variations! Probably unrealistic owners expectations being the biggest!

We bought our H540e years ago and start from your current situation. YMMV but here are some general rules when buying used boat:

- do not buy ex-charter boats unless she has sound survey and is dirt cheap.
- go for as much options and extras as you can get. The price will not be much higher, but installing new later will be PITA and costly.
- untouched structural elements and standing rigging are most important - get the best surveyor
- WM, genset, AC, electric winches (at least 2) is a must for such a big boat
- simpler WMs are great and independence form hunting water sources in the Med in the high season is great
- H540 is performance boat, so sail her with care, but generally sailing, mooring, even in small marinas in Med is not a problem for trained (or at least organized) couple :) But you have to plan in advance every move, manouver or turn


Cwetto
Hanse 540e 2007, sailing Med
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdventureModeOn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 00:24
Well, we've had the survey and it inevitably threw up a number of problems.
There are all sorts of things that need fixing/tightening/changing/updating/inspecting further etc. but the main issues were signs of water retention and delamination on the rudder (which had been in an accident and patched up), a leaking flange on the drive shaft which meant a lot of sea water had entered in the past, sploshed around all over the place and left in the bilges to corrode all sorts of things and a leaking garage (we couldn't find the source of the leak but we could see that water was entering somewhere).
I've looked online to try and find the price to replace the rudder but I can't find anything. Do you know if this is something I have to go directly to Hanse for? Or are there people out there that have rudders for a Hanse 540?
I take it we would use the opportunity to replace the rudder and seal the shaft at the same time. And also locate the leak in the garage to seal it up.
Has anyone else had problems with a leaky garage on a Hanse?
Sam and Sarah
Let the adventure begin!
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 17:07
It will almost certainly be a Jefa rudder and bearings. If you contact Jefa they are extremely helpful.
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168
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