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New sails Laminate or Woven? |
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Relentless
Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Posted: 01 February 2019 at 16:41 |
It's or new sails. The Elvstroms that were delivered with the boat are delaminating. After a quick look and phone call to Quantum I've been proposed with 2 choices:
Fusion M MC6500, a carbon aramid membrane or Hydranet tri-radial sewn the price is nearly identical. I'm leery of the membrane laminate sail because of delamination....but I really don't know. How long should I expect them to last? Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks!!
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mopoulter
Captain Joined: 19 March 2009 Location: London, Canada Status: Offline Points: 320 |
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IF you are not racing go with low stretch polyester my last sail used
Dimension 344 Pro Radial. and 25% Dimension 344 Pro Radial. If racing then laminate is needed This was done by Evolution Sail loft
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mp
Hanse 370 #416 "Anxiolytic" |
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SausalitoDave
Commadore Joined: 13 October 2014 Location: Sausalito Status: Offline Points: 366 |
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I suggest you take a look at North 3di.
Dave Festina Lente Hanse 505
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415 Singapore
Vice Admiral Joined: 23 September 2013 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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Hi we have had to go through the exact same process as our Elvstrom FCL sails have delaminated badly. Not racing often enough to go down the carbon route we have chosen the Hydranet. Our sail maker suggested that laminated sails were ok, but couldn’t recommend them in the tropics, in fact he was quite surprised that they had lasted 5 years, but we have always covered them when the boat wasn’t used. Apparently it is the heat and humidity that destroys them, not just the sun.
New sails should arrive this week, so will be interesting to see how they perform All the best Paul |
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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 923 |
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I had hydranet sails for 10 years. Tri-radial genoa, tri-radial main and staysail. They were great, but won't perform as well as a laminate, molded sail. Mine were made by Steve Thurston at Quantum in Bristol, RI. To my knowledge, its the only woven cloth strong enough for radial cut panels. Spectra and polyester blend from Dimension, I believe. Hydranet is well proven for large cruising boats. Outside of lamination concerns, woven has an advantage over laminate in one really important area. Mildew. Laminate sails can get measles between the layers and you cannot do anything about it. Supposedly newer sails have biocides and anti-mildew formulations, but look at a few year old laminate sail and you will still see it. With Hydranet, if a spot or mildew forms, you just take out a brush and scrub it off. I upgraded to the HPM/EPEX or molded sails. I would have gone with the Quantum Fusion M 6500 and had a quote to do so at the time. I didn't like the FCL, but I couldn't get a credit on them, so I negotiated an upgrade to the HPMs. The jury is out though. The HPMs (like the Fusion) will definitely perform better, but time will tell if they are even close to the HYDRANET in durability. Edited by Black Diamond - 02 February 2019 at 09:50 |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Relentless
Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Good info everyone! Thank you!
Here’s what I’ve gathered: Membrane sails do not stretch or deform. Because of this, they are always fast. Woven sails start stretching immediately and lose their shape. The older they get, the more baggie and out of shape they get. Their performance declines with age. When membrane sails age enough, they delaminate and fail. They will fail in a glorious explosion but will remain as fast as the first day they were hoisted. Woven sails just age and get slower and slower... but will still get you home. For a cruiser, with woven sails, you will always have something aloft.... maybe without much performance. And with membrane sails, you will have fast sails up until the moment they shred themselves. So, there is some insurance and security with woven sails. But, if you plan to replace them often enough to maintain performance, then perhaps membrane sails make sense. For coastal cruising, membrane sails sound great! But for a long offshore passage with 2-5 yr old membrane sails, you better carry a spare set. The reality is that at $20,000-30,000 for a set, I just need to add that to the 5 year cruising budget. |
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samuel
Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2683 |
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My latest mainsail is Fibercon with a Dynema thread so is different to a laminate sail. It was sourced for racing & cruising. My sail was made by Hyde Google:- Fibercon® Pro Hybrid Powered with Dyneema®Edited by samuel - 03 February 2019 at 19:07 |
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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 923 |
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Sail life is not something one can predict easily. One boat can get 10 years out of a sail where another boat only 5. Flogging, hard tacks, whether it has full battens or not, etc. make a HUGE difference. The same sail in a roller furling mast will last a shorter period than one in a roller furling boom (such as yours) because of the way full battens protect it from flogging. My point is that your judgment of how you sail and what options you think are viable matters more than what any of us say. :-) |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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Relentless
Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Great info!
Thank you all for responding!! |
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Relentless
Commander Joined: 17 April 2018 Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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North 3Di is in the picture now. I’ve been in touch with them and I’m super impressed! I’m not sure what the price is yet.... they are putting a proposal together. But I haven’t been able to find anything but great reviews on these sails.
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