myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website myHanse.com - Hanse Yacht Owners Website

Welcome to myHanse.com the forum for Hanse Yachts owners throughout the world.

Forum Home Forum Home > Hints & Tips > 370 / 375
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - short ruder for Hansa 370e
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

short ruder for Hansa 370e

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Captain Cook View Drop Down
Admiral
Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: short ruder for Hansa 370e
    Posted: 09 March 2023 at 23:01

For new (and older ) myhanse members, a visit to the JEFA homepage may be educating.

Here is something about copperpaint near the rudder:

https://jefa.com/ftp/rudder/maintenance/Rudder_blade_anti_fouling_instructions.pdf

Nobody ever told me about the problem with copperpaint, so my rudder also suffered some superficial pitting before I got wiser. (My enlightment was achieved by the myhanse and JEFA homepages).

Notice that sikaflex on the top of the rudder should be inspected/renewed after 3 years.
My sikaflex started detoriating after 9-10 years. I suppose, that there are some owners out there, who never have checked the top of their rudder?
(An endoscope may help checking the sikaflex, but Jefa recommends checking the bearings as well).

Read this to see what happens if you are ignorant of the electrolysis:

https://www.jefa.com/electro-f.htm

If the damage to the rudderstock is limited, you should read Owens post (above) about the sleeve available.

:Kjeld


 





Edited by Captain Cook - 26 March 2023 at 06:18
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
Back to Top
landlocked View Drop Down
Commadore
Commadore
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Online
Points: 489
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2023 at 17:00
Yes, important point.  I use Interlux Trilux33 around the rudder post and for the saildrive.   
"Kerkyra" 400e #042
Back to Top
Captain Cook View Drop Down
Admiral
Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2023 at 08:48
Hi Owen
Your pictures are very educating. I see that you have renewed the sealing around the rudderstock. I have done the same, and I strongly advice other Hanse owners to do that. My sealing started to detoriate after some 10-12 years, and water may seep into the rudder if it is not fixed.
In my post above I mention antifouling with copper. Both on the hull and on the rudder there need to be a separating zone between the aluminium and the copper paint. On my boat I have used Hammerite metal paint (fibreglass reinforced paint) for this.
I mention it again, because there may be a few Hanse owners out there who are ignorant of this.
So remember: NO COPPERPAINT NEAR OR ON ALUMINIUM PARTS!
:Kjeld
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
Back to Top
landlocked View Drop Down
Commadore
Commadore
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Online
Points: 489
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2023 at 03:40
I did the Jefa mod to my rudder stock 5 years ago.   They provided an anodized aluminum sleeve and a replacement bearing to accommodate the sleeve diameter, along with some instructions for setting the sleeve into the rudder body and applying epoxy.   It went very well except for removing the quadrant from the rudder stock which took a lot of tapping and penetrating oil to get the bolt off.  I haven't dropped the rudder out since then so I can't say how the whole thing looks but I gained some peace of mind from doing the mod.


Edited by landlocked - 15 February 2023 at 03:42
"Kerkyra" 400e #042
Back to Top
Captain Cook View Drop Down
Admiral
Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2023 at 22:05
I have an electric welding machine in my workshop, and I have even welded MIG and TIG. I am not an electro engineer or a welder. My son in law even calls my weldings for "seagull-droppings".
Being an older sailor I may be more sceptic than most, and I am extremely cautious about information from unknown sources on the internet.
The fairly new member PilotHuski is telling a story about TIG welding a rudder stock with deep pitting from electrolysis. I am a little sceptic about that. Any welding will have an uneven surface, and the stock will then need to be machined down to a diameter which fit in the Torlon bearing. Furthermore, it is my experience, that a welded add-on to a stock/axle will make the subject weaker than it was before the welding, because the melted alloy will make a frontier zone even deeper into the stock. This is just my humble opinion, and even if you myhansers have tolerated my posts for almost 17 years, you don´t really know me from Adam, right?

The solution to this must be to contact Jefa Denmark, the manufacturer of the rudder, so this I did.

Thor from Jefa sent me an email, where he answered my technical questions.
He points out, that a welding will result in an uneven oval finish and thereby problems with the bearings. And electrolysis on the surface will have microscopic channels towards the center of the rudder-stock, so the strenght of the stock will be weakened whether you have welded it or not.
He states: "The best solution (if electrolysis is not too bad) is to mount a "sleeve" (over the damaged area) and get a new (oversize) bearing which fit the sleeve". (Sold by Jefa).

This sounds quite intelligent to me. If you hide the corrosion inside a watertight sleeve, any new corrosion will be on the outside of the sleeve. By the way, Thor recommends to read about electrolysis on the Jefa homepage.

I have a little corrosion on my rudderstock as well. Back in 2006 I did not know that antifouling in a circle around the rudderstock must be free of copper! Nowadays I even have a small anode connected to the system. Read more about this on Jefa homepage.

Jefa also have a pricelist. A RUD40 standard for H370 and H400 cost about €3800 +VAT (Outside EU no VAT).
Transportation costs starts at € 200. Rudder is easy to change. Your grandmother could do it! You just need to dig a hole under the boat so you can drop it. It weighs like 60 kg.

I watched the TV the other day. A gullible dane had paid for woodpellets in Belgium to an amount of something like €100.000. (For earning money by wholesale). What he recieved was a long nose, (a "Gonzo" in danish),  because he was victim of an internet scam. Be careful out there!
Cook the Captain


 




Edited by Captain Cook - 17 February 2023 at 10:22
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
Back to Top
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 591
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2023 at 15:52
Hi Wijnand - I'll be very happy to; it might help with the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder suffered as result of finding issue after issue.  Keel test with possible removal on 22 February although I'm still hopeful to get everything complete by Easter.  Not sure which Easter, though.....

Thanks!

Iain
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
Kymo View Drop Down
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 04 June 2008
Location: Holland
Status: Offline
Points: 21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kymo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2023 at 11:10
Iain - My Hanse 400 Kymo is from 2009 so I am very interested in the issues you are finding during refit. Would it be possible to put them up on the site?

I hope Ratbasher will be ready before the start of the season.

Good luck,

Wijnand
Back to Top
PilotHuski View Drop Down
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2022
Location: Itali Triest
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PilotHuski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2023 at 17:14
about welding
For information ; Aluminium alloy 6082
TIG welding
TIG filler wire should be as close as possible in chemical composition

Back to Top
Ratbasher View Drop Down
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 591
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2023 at 17:03
Fraser - EUR2500 sounds incredibly cheap. If you're considering a new rudder I've just paid £6000 for a new-build for my H400 with new stock, fittings, installation, sea trials, warranty etc.  While Jefa were quoting just over £2800 ex-VAT just for the rudder the ancillary costs would have been a good deal higher.  I paid to keep more control over the design and build process by using a local Yard with a good reputation for such builds, tweaking it for strength and performance.  In any replacement, the old rudder has to be cracked open first and detailed measurements taken; Jefa stated that each one was different and any replacement must be boat-specific, which came as a surprise to me.  The costs of this have to be factored in and if you buy from Jefa, there's delivery costs with potential delays.  I don't mean to disrespect Jefa at all; they're a fine company that builds good stuff but as the costs were going to be high whatever I did I opted for the advantages of local build. 

Iain
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
Back to Top
PilotHuski View Drop Down
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2022
Location: Itali Triest
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PilotHuski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2023 at 14:05
Hello
Well, I paid only 200 euros for welding
but the whole repair I think it will cost about 500 euros, this is together with a new one and epoxy
because I had to open it to get to the corrosion.
The repair yard refused to make repairs by welding.
They said this is impossible.
They suggested to just cover the corroded surface with epoxy.
But this did not solve the problem of loss of strength.
I am a welding engineer.
This particular alloy lends itself well to welding.
But it is important to use the correct welding wire. (TIG)
Sincerely, Victor
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.

Links : www.hanseyachts.co.uk www.hanseyachts.com www.fjordboats.co.uk www.dehler.co.uk www.varianta.co.uk