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short ruder for Hansa 370e |
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Posted: 09 March 2023 at 23:01 |
For new (and older ) myhanse members, a visit to the JEFA homepage may be educating. Here is something about copperpaint near the rudder: https://jefa.com/ftp/rudder/maintenance/Rudder_blade_anti_fouling_instructions.pdf Nobody ever told me about the problem with copperpaint, so my rudder also suffered some superficial pitting before I got wiser. (My enlightment was achieved by the myhanse and JEFA homepages). Notice that sikaflex on the top of the rudder should be inspected/renewed after 3 years. My sikaflex started detoriating after 9-10 years. I suppose, that there are some owners out there, who never have checked the top of their rudder? (An endoscope may help checking the sikaflex, but Jefa recommends checking the bearings as well). Read this to see what happens if you are ignorant of the electrolysis: https://www.jefa.com/electro-f.htm If the damage to the rudderstock is limited, you should read Owens post (above) about the sleeve available. :Kjeld Edited by Captain Cook - 26 March 2023 at 06:18 |
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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landlocked
Commadore Joined: 12 April 2005 Location: Canada Status: Online Points: 489 |
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Yes, important point. I use Interlux Trilux33 around the rudder post and for the saildrive.
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"Kerkyra" 400e #042
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Hi Owen Your pictures are very educating. I see that you have renewed the sealing around the rudderstock. I have done the same, and I strongly advice other Hanse owners to do that. My sealing started to detoriate after some 10-12 years, and water may seep into the rudder if it is not fixed. In my post above I mention antifouling with copper. Both on the hull and on the rudder there need to be a separating zone between the aluminium and the copper paint. On my boat I have used Hammerite metal paint (fibreglass reinforced paint) for this. I mention it again, because there may be a few Hanse owners out there who are ignorant of this. So remember: NO COPPERPAINT NEAR OR ON ALUMINIUM PARTS! :Kjeld
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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landlocked
Commadore Joined: 12 April 2005 Location: Canada Status: Online Points: 489 |
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I did the Jefa mod to my rudder stock 5 years ago. They provided an anodized aluminum sleeve and a replacement bearing to accommodate the sleeve diameter, along with some instructions for setting the sleeve into the rudder body and applying epoxy. It went very well except for removing the quadrant from the rudder stock which took a lot of tapping and penetrating oil to get the bolt off. I haven't dropped the rudder out since then so I can't say how the whole thing looks but I gained some peace of mind from doing the mod.
Edited by landlocked - 15 February 2023 at 03:42 |
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"Kerkyra" 400e #042
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Captain Cook
Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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I have an electric welding machine in my workshop, and I have even
welded MIG and TIG. I am not an electro engineer or a welder. My son in
law even calls my weldings for "seagull-droppings". Being
an older sailor I may be more sceptic than most, and I am extremely
cautious about information from unknown sources on the internet. The
fairly new member PilotHuski is telling a story about TIG welding a
rudder stock with deep pitting from electrolysis. I am a little sceptic
about that. Any welding will have an uneven surface, and the stock will
then need to be machined down to a diameter which fit in the Torlon
bearing. Furthermore, it is my experience, that a welded add-on to a
stock/axle will make the subject weaker than it was before the welding,
because the melted alloy will make a frontier zone even deeper into the
stock. This is just my humble opinion, and even if you myhansers have
tolerated my posts for almost 17 years, you don´t really know me from Adam,
right? The solution to this must be to contact Jefa Denmark, the manufacturer of the rudder, so this I did. Thor from Jefa sent me an email, where he answered my technical questions. He
points out, that a welding will result in an uneven oval finish and
thereby problems with the bearings. And electrolysis on the surface will
have microscopic channels towards the center of the rudder-stock, so
the strenght of the stock will be weakened whether you have welded it or
not. He states: "The best solution (if electrolysis is not
too bad) is to mount a "sleeve" (over the damaged area) and get a new
(oversize) bearing which fit the sleeve". (Sold by Jefa). This
sounds quite intelligent to me. If you hide the corrosion inside a
watertight sleeve, any new corrosion will be on the outside of the
sleeve. By the way, Thor recommends to read about electrolysis on the
Jefa homepage. I have a little corrosion on my rudderstock as well. Back in 2006 I did not know that antifouling in a circle around the rudderstock must be free of copper! Nowadays I even have a small anode connected to the system. Read more about this on Jefa homepage. Jefa also have a pricelist. A RUD40 standard for H370 and H400 cost about €3800 +VAT (Outside EU no VAT). Transportation costs starts at € 200. Rudder is easy to change. Your grandmother could do it! You just need to dig a hole under the boat so you can drop it. It weighs like 60 kg. I watched the TV the other day. A gullible dane had paid for woodpellets in Belgium to an amount of something like €100.000. (For earning money by wholesale). What he recieved was a long nose, (a "Gonzo" in danish), because he was victim of an internet scam. Be careful out there! Cook the Captain Edited by Captain Cook - 17 February 2023 at 10:22 |
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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Ratbasher
Rear Admiral Joined: 31 May 2017 Location: Cyprus Status: Offline Points: 591 |
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Hi Wijnand - I'll be very happy to; it might help with the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder suffered as result of finding issue after issue. Keel test with possible removal on 22 February although I'm still hopeful to get everything complete by Easter. Not sure which Easter, though.....
Thanks! Iain
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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
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Kymo
Lieutenant Joined: 04 June 2008 Location: Holland Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Iain - My Hanse 400 Kymo is from 2009 so I am very interested in the issues you are finding during refit. Would it be possible to put them up on the site?
I hope Ratbasher will be ready before the start of the season. Good luck, Wijnand
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PilotHuski
Sub Lieutenant Joined: 15 July 2022 Location: Itali Triest Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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about welding
For information ; Aluminium alloy 6082
TIG welding TIG filler wire should be as close as possible in chemical composition |
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Ratbasher
Rear Admiral Joined: 31 May 2017 Location: Cyprus Status: Offline Points: 591 |
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Fraser - EUR2500 sounds incredibly cheap. If you're considering a new rudder I've just paid £6000 for a new-build for my H400 with new stock, fittings, installation, sea trials, warranty etc. While Jefa were quoting just over £2800 ex-VAT just for the rudder the ancillary costs would have been a good deal higher. I paid to keep more control over the design and build process by using a local Yard with a good reputation for such builds, tweaking it for strength and performance. In any replacement, the old rudder has to be cracked open first and detailed measurements taken; Jefa stated that each one was different and any replacement must be boat-specific, which came as a surprise to me. The costs of this have to be factored in and if you buy from Jefa, there's delivery costs with potential delays. I don't mean to disrespect Jefa at all; they're a fine company that builds good stuff but as the costs were going to be high whatever I did I opted for the advantages of local build.
Iain
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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
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PilotHuski
Sub Lieutenant Joined: 15 July 2022 Location: Itali Triest Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Hello Well, I paid only 200 euros for welding but the whole repair I think it will cost about 500 euros, this is together with a new one and epoxy because I had to open it to get to the corrosion. The repair yard refused to make repairs by welding. They said this is impossible. They suggested to just cover the corroded surface with epoxy. But this did not solve the problem of loss of strength. I am a welding engineer. This particular alloy lends itself well to welding. But it is important to use the correct welding wire. (TIG) Sincerely, Victor
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