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Saildrive SD50 and GL5 transmission oil

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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 June 2019 at 14:54
I just added a P.S. to a post in the 400 forum, but I feel, that this subject should be discussed by all Hanse owners, who is enduring the Yanmar SD50 saildrive.

"P.S. All members are advised to search posts by StavrosNZ, about lapping the cone of SD50. Stavros points out, that transmission oil-quality GL5 is destroying the cone, and is recommending the use of quality GL4.
A search on the net can reveal, that the old GL4 contained lead, and was replaced with GL5.
Owners of vintage cars in USA have remarks about the GL5-oil destroying the yellow metals (brass/copper) in differentials in vintage cars.
Stavros is recommending GL4, but I doubt,  if GL4 of today contains lead?
Almost all Hanse owners are using the GL5, and thereby themself destroying their saildrive-cone.
As for Yanmar, they are chasing the buck, and they like very much to sell their overpriced spare parts to you.

Is there an engineer or oil-specialist among the members who has an advice?"

I personally would like to know, if a transmission oil can be found, which is not destroying the saildrive? An oil which do not contain S or P.
Here is one of the posts by StavrosNZ:

"I should elaborate on difference between GL-5 and GL-4 to be clear.

In normal operation, the sulfur/phosphorous additive in the gear oil forms a black sacrificial coating on the gears and anything it touches with a little pressure and temperature. As the gears turn, instead of wearing, the sacrificial coating of additives is pealed off or worn off. This is normal and acceptable in all steel gears. But when one or more of the surfaces is brass or another soft metal, the sacrificial coating is stronger than the base metal, and instead of just peeling off, it takes with it a few microns of brass that it is bound to.

A traditional GL-4 gear oil of any given viscosity has about ½ of the level of sulfur/phosphorous additive that would be in the GL-5 product, so the bond is not as strong, and therefore can be peeled off without peeling a layer of brass (or less brass). 

This means that the GL-4 product provides a little less extreme pressure protection, this can be an issue for extreme presure (EP) environments like a car differential but for us in our saildrives there is no EP at anything like these levels. Tests have shown (Google it) that when a GL-5 product in a transmission that requires GL-4, they find 2 to 4 times as much copper and or brass in the used oil as they would with a GL-4 product (with used oil analysis). Eventually the brass washers in the SD saildrives wear to the point that they no longer provide the correct tolerances and for one cone to make contact with the other half of the cone inducing slipping. 

You need to look for a GL-4 oil that does not include GL-5 in its description, if it claims GL-4/GL-5 on the label i would not use it."
 


Edited by Captain Cook - 25 June 2019 at 09:41
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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StavrosNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2019 at 22:04
I use exclusively Mercury high performance gear lube, it is a GL4 oil clearly marked on the pack and in the specification sheets. This product also contains emulsifier to mix salt water should it enter the system.

5 years using this with vented gear case and thrust bearing upgrade and touch wood, all is well.
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 08:23
Yanmar is recommending the use of GL4 or GL5 in their official user manuals, and maybe even on a sign mounted on the saildrive. Read this link from Cruisersforum:
"http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f114/yanmar-sd40-and-sd50-slipping-saildrive-upgrade-192693-2.html"
We are a lot of owners of the infamous SD50 saildrive, who by negligence of the producer are either living with the risk of malfunction of the drive, or already have used a large sum of money to repair the slipping cones.
Yanmars answer to complaints has to my knowledge been a total denial of responsibility.
Yanmars way of communicating important knowledge ONLY to the Dealers, is disgusting. We users would not know about Technical Bulletins hiding on the Internet, if not found by members. Just search: "Use of synthetic oil", "Wrong Markings on dipstick", "Use of Biodiesel", or "Use of folding propeller" If you have not read them, look at wesailhanse.se.
Furthermore the cost of genuine spareparts are sky-high. I reported in another post, that ONE nut with left hand thread was €47!!! - and the cost of a set of shims was €100!!! (www.lidingomarin.com)
In another members thread it is mentioned, that the prices of spare parts are skyrocketing.
I am not a lawyer, but in my opinion there may be foundation for a common lawsuit against Yanmar.
The destroying additives in GL5 and Yanmars knowledge thereof, is a key issue in an eventuel lawsuit.
This is from my User Manual in Danish:



Edited by Captain Cook - 24 June 2019 at 08:44
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alettaenmarcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 20:11
do not use GL5 it is destroying your bronze clutche!
Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2019 at 10:27
Hi all,
 
Last week I experienced a slipping cone again,,,,, 3 time in 9 years,,,,
After diassembling the saildrive yesterday I found lots of small metallic parts in the gearhouse and no wonder the clutch cone was damaged.
 
I am now considering to buy a new Engine 3JH again with the SD60 drive.
I have tired to search the net for bad commants about SD60 but can not find anything.
 
Is there anyone out there that has experience of SD60 and compared it with SD50?
Is it more reliable?
 
BR
Morgan
Hanse 400 2006
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2019 at 16:22
Morgan - before you go to such expense check out the thread below, disregarding its title:

https://www.myhanse.com/mixing-elbow_topic11279_page2.html

The video posted by Tolhothe on an SD50 upgrade kit is particularly useful and the comments by StavrosNZ also make interesting reading.


H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK
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