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Bottom rudder bearing

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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2020 at 12:12
wow, a 315 nice...
Bottom bearing is in and working very well...I did take your suggestion and extended the height of the bearing and I think this helped a lot... I will post a photo of the finished bearing when I am near my pc👍👍
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2020 at 19:11
Great, I  hope my experience has helped a bit. I have 4* 300mm lengths of thin walled Hygenic quality thin walled tubes. I was going to fit to the shaft to get round the wearproblem, but in the end went for the overlenth approach.
Today we took charge of our new [2007] Hanse 315. motored back from Hamble as the sail controls not fitted correctly by yard, wind gusting a bit. Tomorrow hope to try sailing?
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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holby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2020 at 22:50
yes, many thanks... much appreciated.. 👍
Owe you a beer.. 😂😂
Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)
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Taylor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 16:18
Glad you have all done the leg work for me!

I am in the process of removing Bluenote's rudder as I have a little play in the bottom bearing and wanted to get some check on any potential pitting of the rudder shaft. 

I will for sure be using copious amounts of aluminium based grease when I replace the tiller pivot clamp bolt. What a terrible combination of different metals.

I have to dig a 1.025 m pit to drop the rudder into.

This isn't going to be easy as Bluenote is laid up on a low cradle on a quayside that was used for processing and exporting most of the Welsh roof slate to European cities!

I would very much appreciate any dimensioned drawing of the bottom and top bearing bushes. 

I may consider a slightly longer stepped bottom bearing as I have noticed that after dropping it about 60mm the play has gone and in fact it has made it a lot harder to turn the rudder blade. 

I have left it with some washing up liquid squirted into the top of the rudder tube hoping it will make its way down the shaft and easier to twist and remove the rudder.OuchOuch

Other planned maintenance is waiting for replacement through hulls and valves. Interestingly all my original through hulls and seacocks were in near perfect condition. I am replacing with tru design. 

During the wait all of the ancient antifouling is being removed and I have been promised some 4 year hempel AF as used on the river Mersey dock tugs!


Hanse 301 Bluenote 11
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 18:22
I know digging a hole is cheap option, because both times Ive dropped a rudder I had to cough up to have a lift, first time they did me as last lift of day and left me in travel hoist overnight and then launched me next morning. Cheap but I was on my own working late in night to drop bearing clean out sikoflex and put in new bearing and lift rudder into a boat that was moving in the slings. Second time the dreaded health and safety regs was the excuse to refuse to leave me in hoist and I had to pay for two lifts. So get digging!.
I attach a drawing of my bearing which according to the guy who bought Bloto is working fine.
However important to note if I did it again I might go as tight as a clearance of 0.1-0.15mm, on the un-worn diameter area of rudder shaft.
Also note I made the bearing over length at 129 mm bearing length, It worried me that it might bind, but it was fine, but the inside diameter of the rudder tube was not very round/parallel so I made the OD of my Delrin a very loose fit, stepped to suit the hole/tube yours may differ. so that I could float in the bearing on Sika-flex. That worked fine. If you make the OD tight in the rudder tube you might have stiff rudder due to any misalignment.
So float it in on Sika-flex, then couple up the top bearing and let the Sika cure with rudder hanging in it natual position.
Good luck, the digging might be the most difficult part of job.
Perry

Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Taylor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2021 at 17:21
Thanks Perry

Digging finished and rudder extracted from Bluenote after loading it with a bucket full of 10 bricks and waggling the rudder with a 5 foot lever g clamped onto it. 
The rudder really was virtually locked solid as soon as it dropped down the first 75mm.

 I have definitely had my tier 4 lockdown workout  every day over the last week! 

There is minimal wear to the bottom bush. There is as expected some wear in the aluminium rudder shaft but no sign of any corrosive pitting. 

A longer replacement bush design should overcome the uneven wear and take up the slack.

I was surprised how short the original fit standard bush was. 
It is best engineering design to have a bush with a bearing surface length of at least twice the diameter of the shaft.

Steve 


Hanse 301 Bluenote 11
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2021 at 20:21
Great: You reminded of that night in boat yard, I had to use rope lashing [tighten with spanish windlass] to attach a 6ft long timber to the rudder, then worked up a hell of a sweat moving rudder back and forth hanging all my weight on rudder as it slowly came free. I was worried I might split the rudder but I had no sign of damage.
I think the short bearing length due to penny pincing and design ignorance [thinking that longer bearing would give more friction], "it dont work like that boys"?
Perry
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Taylor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2021 at 17:31
My workout today was to finally get the bottom bearing out. 
I eventually had to use a 3m long scaffold pole as a pile driver onto the top edge of the bush and through the hole left by removing the top bush assembly.
It took me over an hour to eventually get the bush out.
No sign of any wear on the bush. It was fastened into the rudder tube with a very very strong adhesive. 
I had to brace the bottom of the boat hull externally locally to the rudder tube in order to concentrate the impact action. There is no way I could have removed that bush with the boat just in a crane slings.
Hanse 301 Bluenote 11
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2021 at 18:11
Your right I'm sorry I failed to explain fully my methods:-
1]  on my first removal in 2016 the bearing was nearly siezed on shaft and the sikaflex type adhesive was already damaged, after the work turning the rudder back and forth with a long timber, and removing rudder shaft I was able to hammer our the bearing with timber down from top with a modest builders lump hammer. It was heavy going but it wasnt at a level to damage hull or bearing, but the sikaflex was partialy sheared.

2]  my second bearing removal was harder, I knew would be tough as I had previously made a serious job of bonding in the bearing with sika 291. I had a 19mm plywood with 100mm hole made to spread load on outside of hull, a big diameter tube 4" ID 4" long to allow the bearing to slide out, a  length of 18mm screw studding, and an aluminium disk about 12mm thick turned to fit down inside the rudder tube and bear on the inside end of bottom bearing. The 10" long socket set lever winding down the nut had to be pulled with a 2 ft tube extension. And the sikaflex continued serious resistance even when over 1/2" extension under load.
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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