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Lithium batteries

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MagneJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MagneJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2020 at 15:18
Hi Jooce,

How did you change the threshold on your VSR? Is it the original VSR? I was considering to install a Victron ARGOFET to isolate the service battery from the starter battery, but it seems like a better idea to change the settings on the VSR.


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Jooce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jooce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2020 at 08:21
Originally posted by MagneJ MagneJ wrote:

Hi Jooce,

How did you change the threshold on your VSR? Is it the original VSR? I was considering to install a Victron ARGOFET to isolate the service battery from the starter battery, but it seems like a better idea to change the settings on the VSR.



Hi Magne,

I have the Sterling Voltage Sensitive Relay. Instructions on how to change the thresholds found here: https://sterling-power.com/products/voltage-sensitive-relay-digital-80-160a-12-24v
KarmaDos- Hanse 385 - 2013
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Ian Coverdale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Coverdale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2020 at 22:47
In process of replacing our 2013 Victron 2x 165Ah AGM batteries with Lithium. We have a power-hungry boat with two fridges, induction hob, 1.2kW kettle, laptops and often an hour of TV each evening. AGM's are charged by a Victron Multiplus 12/1600/70 which has obviously taken good care of the batteries as capacity is still good after 7-years; they're just too small.

Looked at lots of options for Lithium; internal BMS batteries from USA, Victron and buying individual Winston cells to build up a battery ourselves. It is this latter option we chosen, importing 600Ah worth of cells from Winston's Czech based EU importer. We have it all connected at home with external BMS, charger/load shutdowns and an additional 100A charger to reduce 50% charge time to something under 2-hours. These cells will not fit within the existing battery box so we're also constructing a new box ~1" wider and ~4" longer which will still fit under the port-side saloon seating.

Total cost for 600Ah by this route is ~£3,500 ... but this is a big project and I'm an electronics Engineer by background which helps. We hoping 7.5kWh of stored energy aboard should be sufficient to see us through half a week on sun-free, wind-free days without running the engine/generator.

Cheers.
Ian & Andrea
SV Gabrielle
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spam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2020 at 04:34
Quick question, how much maximum discharge current do you think one should dimension for on a boat with electric windlass and winches?  

Reason for asking is that some lithium batteries, like the Victron Superpacks, seem to be limited in what they can product continuous and peak. Even the 200 Ah Victron Superpack does only 70 Amps continious.  I presume that if you put two in parallel you can get 140 Amps, but even that seems kind of low....

Harold
S/V Ventus
H415/314
Boston

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G8WVW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G8WVW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2020 at 12:16
You will find this with most internal BMS type batteries; typically 50-100A max. If you are paralleling many batteries it should not be a problem but if you have a small number of batteries and a high current demand, then you need to be very careful with your battery choice. With an external BMS, you choose the cut-off relay/device yourself so can make it as big or small as you need but comes with all the other complexities of an external BMS!

I have designed mine around 300A continuous protected by a 500A fuse so the system must be capable of withstanding a short-term 500A load to blow the fuse! My thrusters have dedicated lead-acid batteries so the lithiums only supply recharge current through a pair of 30A DC/DC converters, not the full thruster loads. If your thrusters are powered directly from your lithiums, then you could be looking at more than 500A. Does you existing installation have any fuses to give you a clue as the the maximum current expected?


Edited by G8WVW - 01 June 2020 at 12:23
Andrea & Ian
Aboard SV Gabrielle (H445 #164)
Portishead, SW England.
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spam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2020 at 19:46
The largest fuses in my system are my winches which are both fused at 125 Amps. Other than that there is the windlass at 80 Amps and another 60 Amps ANL fuse (not really sure what for, any ideas?) Theoretically I should never winches at the same time, but then again theory and practice might be different one day.  

Given this I am wondering what the right design spec should be.   I am also, wonder how well the BMS in each battery balance the current draw and what happens when the maximum is reached.  Will it in practice really divide 50:50 if there are two batteries in parallel?   Do BMS in each battery just cut off current if the maximum is reached or cap it to the limit?
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G8WVW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G8WVW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2020 at 16:47
Looks like you have a very similar setup to mine (Hanse 445) also we've a Victron inverter which is capable of drawing a good 200A.

Your winches will not draw anything like 125A unless they're under heavy strain and suggest it is unlikely you will have both under heavy load at the same time. It is also very rare for us to use the windlass without the engine running with its 115A alternator turning so there is no load on the batteries. I'm sure with a system design for permanent 300A (fused at 500A), my system is very unlikely to be overloaded. This is an external BMS system of course.

Sure the battery supplier can advise if you share your power loadings with them.

As for balance, it is essential that battery cabling is identical in length and cross-section for each battery to ensure they charge/discharge evenly. Internal BMS batteries are almost aways autominous so have no idea what the other batteries are doing. It is possible that close to fully charged or fully discharged that one battery may cut-off before the other but you should avoid getting into this position anyway so I would not worry about this too much. You obvious need some good external battery monitoring to warn of high/low battery voltage such at the Victron BMV700 series (or equivalent). 

Hope that helps?

Cheers.


Andrea & Ian
Aboard SV Gabrielle (H445 #164)
Portishead, SW England.
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spam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2020 at 15:22
Hi Andrea & Ian,

Thanks a lot!

Harold
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