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Would you go bluewater sailing with your H400?

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Rikard_Swe View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 August 2020 at 19:18
There is as many thaughts as there are people. Often the ones that has the most ideas of how and what never go anywhere. 

Would you go bluewatersailing ie over the atlantic with your Hanse 400? 

The  upside to go with a H400 - it is a nice looking, sleek, fast cruiser, fun to sail. 

The downside would be: 
spade rudder
Fin keel
weak construction for autopilot (carry a spare?)
flat bottom - slams hard in rough seas
Aft cockpit - you are sitting close to the sea

What are your thaughts in this? 


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colinc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colinc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2020 at 20:33
H400 and smaller have already crossed successfully.  And if done as part of a rally like the ARC is pretty safe. You certainly need to have additional equipment in board and some adaptions - steering perhaps being one of them to be be considered.  There is nothing particularly wrong with an H400 for this that cannot be mitigated.  Depends how much you want to do it. 
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2020 at 21:43
The H400 has a small aluminium plate saying "Class A -Ocean" so the boat will do fine.

But what about the crew? In my experience, you need a minimum af two experienced sailors for an ARC crossing. Also the trip to Las Palmas can involve gales and storms.

In my H400 I experienced a full storm in The German Bight in 2012, because the weather gurus had an off-day. In 2015 the same happened between Scheveningen and Zeebrugge, where I sailed in a convoy with 10 other yachts. When the gale warning arrived on NAVTEX, the wind was 19 m/s, so the other 10 yachts altered course towards Roompot. Since the H400 mast is 19,52 meters +VHF, I could not pass under the bridge in Roompot (and I did not know if mooring outside was a possibility), so I continued to Zeebrugge. Freya did fine, but the windvane, the autopilot and the chartplotter stopped functioning for some time, so hand-steering after the old-fashioned compass it was.
My wife enjoys sailing on sunny days in a light breeze, so she was really not enjoying these passages.

In 2008 an English H400e, and in 2012 a Danish 400e participated in the ARC. There may be more.

As you say, the flat bottom is a nuisance in rough weather, but I had a chat with Jimmy Cornell in Copenhagen a decade ago. Eventhough he had some reservations about katamarans and  trimarans, he said, that the best boat for bluewater sailing is the one you already know and own.

Jimmy Cornell is no longer part of the ARC, but he has started a competing company, also crossing the Atlantic. I am not up to date if the ARC and Cornells voyage will launch in 2020.
UPDATE: Cornells Odyssey stopped after the 2018 crossing, but it seems that the ARC will sail in 2020.

Anyway, read a few books before taking the plunge into bluewater sailing, and maybe buy a few extras for the boat. A SSB/HF radio is necessary in the ARC these days I believe.

I believe you can read swedish, so visit Jerk Oldenburgs homepage: www.vindela.se, and you may be tempted to follow in Jerk´s footsteps.  In one episode he talks about his old sandals having an opinion of their own, marching him into a diving-school.
:Kjeld




Edited by Captain Cook - 27 August 2020 at 23:29
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2020 at 23:03
Many 400/415/418's have gone offshore, a Google search will give you a number of examples and the Australia/New Zealand dealer Team Windcraft have a number iof examples and case studies on their website. www.teamwindcraft.com.

The boat will be far more capable than most crew.

Good planning and preparation and applicable spares.

 
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand
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Rikard_Swe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rikard_Swe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2020 at 07:18
The equipment and safety equipment is something that is needed on all bluewater boats. 
Im more thinking of the boat and layout on the boat and cockpit. It seems more of a secure feeling an perhaps nicer to sit in a center cockpit during crappy weather than sitting in the aft. Ok, one might not need to sit all the time behind the wheel, but sometimes it is needed. 

I read the links posted, much interresting information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colinc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2020 at 07:25
In my view too having a boat with a more protected helming position is certainly an advantage if often offshore. But many cross without that.  You are coming down to preferences of which there will be many different views.

The layout below could be better too e.g. bunks.  But more handholds etc can help with that.

So if you are mostly offshore then maybe not the best choice of boat.  But if going offshore just to do it - no real problem.


Edited by colinc - 28 August 2020 at 07:33
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Rikard_Swe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rikard_Swe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2020 at 11:47
We have some handrails inside, I will make a Leecloth for the saloon, like someone in here did on his 400. We will we decide to go with this boat make an arch for the back, for solarpanels, antennas, liferaft and dinghy. This will form like a cage - so it will feel more protected. 

We have our main traveler in the cockpit, when sailing close quarters it makes sense to have it here. But when bluewater sailing it is perhaps more in the way when walking back to the helms position in the night. 
Small adjustment. 

We need genua traveller on the sides (small adjustment)

Bigger batterybank 700Ah Lithium 

Safety equipment, satphone, and so on - but this will be crusual in every boat. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 14:07
Here is a link for Rikard about Staande Mast Route (SMR):
https://www.myhanse.com/standing-mast-route-advice-needed_topic11460_page1.html?KW=C%2Dmap

Last year I adviced Samuel about SMR, (Corona spoiled that convoy)and mentioned, that a device like C-maps PC-Planner (not produced anymore)  was useful because it has live/ predicted tidal currents. (As well as live/predicted tidal stations).
I would like to know: Is there a chartplotter/map system which can do that today?

The tidal harbours have the depht in  LAT, and as the C-Map chart below shows, a lot of inland harbours in Holland are in tidal areas.

Also I would like to know, if a H400 with a 2,0 meter keel kan enter the SMR at Delfzij?
I believe, that here in 2020, most of the route Delfzij/Eemskanaal/Groningen/Van Staarkenborghkanaal/Prinses Margrietkanaal/Leeuwarden/Harlingen has a depht of more than 2 meters. Of course this information should be in the booklet over the SMR, but maybe some of the dutch members have the facts?
I know, that a few years ago a group of yacts from Elsinore started the SMR from Lauwersoog via Dokkum to Leeuwarden, and that this route was okay for 2-meter keels.
:Kjeld
Image from C-Map PC Planner, Map West European Coasts, Megawide

Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rikard_Swe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 10:39
I run two Raymarine Axiom 9, so Cmap will work.
I saw that you can download predict wind directly into the Axiom - I will look into this during the fall. 

For internet conectivity I will use local simcard and most probably a Iridium phone or Iridium go. The monthly cost is 250 Euro/month - rather expensive, but it is not needed all the time. I will look into the second hand market for this. 

I have looked into SSB and a Pactor modem. The hardware gets really expensive, while the yearly cost will be much lower - the same yearly cost as a Iridium account. 

For a one year cruise the total cost will stay about the same - a sat phone will be easier to use for the family. 


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