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Aircon cooling line maintenance mod

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Lyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Aircon cooling line maintenance mod
    Posted: 20 April 2023 at 23:17
I've searched on this topic by A/C, aircon, air conditioning, but didn't find anything, so I thought I would start a new thread for opinions on the care/cleaning of the seawater cooling lines for the air conditioning system.

I haven't had a boat that has aircon on it before, and it wasn't a must-have for me.  But, the amount of time I can have on the boat is directly proportional to the comfort of those who would come along, which is why running the A/C to cool the boat before sleeping is of interest to me now.  However, to talk with ANYONE in the marina about aircon is the opening for a discussion about the incredible sea life that is living in their system, especially the sea grape.  Incredibly capable of making through the fine mesh strainer as a baby and grows into something the size of a pumpkin in the heat exchanger.  Since I've seen nothing written about this, is this much of a problem for areas other than the mid-Atlantic of the US?

If so, I was considering teeing into the aircon returns (3 midship starboard and 1 in the same location as the intake) to and feed a new manifold.  In normal operation, each would use its own thru-hull to discharge seawater so I wouldn't introduce a problem of back-pressuring units that don't have the same flow.  However, when I would want to flush the system, I would:

1.) Close the intake and all discharge seacocks.
2.) I already have a hose and ball valve on one of the extra capped off ports on the distribution manifold that I use to winterize.  It also does a nice job of refilling the system if you get an airlock (similar to Arcadia's modification he made to the pump).
3.) I would place that hose on the submersible pump in a 5-gallon bucket, which would be full of AC Barnacle Bust.
4.) On my new manifold, I would open the port for the circuit I want to purge.  That will push from the bucket, through the submersible pump, through the supply manifold, through the target system, into the new return manifold, and out the end back to the same 5-gallon bucket (potentially through a wye-strainer before it reaches the bucket). I understand these purging systems want to flow the cleaners for an hour or so, not just fill & let them set.
5.) When not in use, the new manifold ports are closed and the system operates as before.

Has this been a big problem for anyone?  Anyone try something similar?  If so, were the freed up creatures so chunky that I would need a more robust way to strain them out (i.e., my wye-strainer will clog in 3 seconds)?
Jon
S/V Lyn
2017 Hanse 588 | Hull 19 | Deep draft | 150hp | 220v & 110v systems | Lithium House Bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2023 at 01:47
Jon,

We have AC on HOPE but use it only about 30-50 hours a year. Even in the tropics we only run it when it is really hot and then only for a few hours around dusk to take the heat out of the below deck areas.  We now have shades that go over the area from the mast to the dodger and one forward which shades from the forepeak hatch aft to just forward of the mast. These reduce the heat in the boat a lot. In my previous life on a super yacht the AC ran 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Even when the boat was hauled out the boat yard plumbed seawater to the yacht AC system. On that boat we needed to use Barnacle Buster through the raw water system to kill and dissolve the creatures growing in the pipework. Barnacle Buster supplied a 60 liter tub with a pump to circulate the product through the system. We circulated the BB for about 60 mins and then left it in the system for several more hours then flushed the system and the flow of seawater through the system was enough to flush through most undissolved but dead shell. The flow rate of the BB pump was not high enough to flush shell out of the system. Your process and system sounds fine if a little complicated. 
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2023 at 22:32

The factory installed AC system on the 575 is dangerous.     Its cheap "marine brass" (an oxymoron) and mine sprung leaks in the middle of the casting, not at any connection.    I replaced the whole thing with a proper bronze setup.     I also replaced the sea-water intake and filter setup.  That, too, was dangerous. See pictures.  While the design of the system seems fine to me,  I find the material quality for the sea water side of the system pretty poor.

The most important thing I have found is that the strainer for the AC system can get clogged, and you will get "HE" (or something) error on the control display.   No water reaching the unit for exchange.   Keep the strainers clean.   I check them on a regular basis.

As well,   I put a clamshell strainer on the outside of the hull to provide additional protection against things like eel grass or plastic in the water.

The original Hanse "marine brass" after 2 years.



The replacement manifold. 

Strainer on the outside of the AC thru-hull.

New AC strainer (right) in a new location.  The original Hanse strainer was screwed right onto the thru-hull and opening the ball valve (it wasn't a seacock) could snap the whole thing off.      Take a look at your strainer setup.


Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Lyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2023 at 20:57
A few months ago, I did modify the air conditioning distribution as described above.  Reporting back to anyone who may be interested, I used it last week to purge and then follow-up with a fresh water rinse, and then an antifreeze fill (not always necessary where I am, but why not).  So easy.  Some may say unnecessary to flush, but if you're interested...

To begin, the rear manifold at the base of the stairs.  There was an capped/vacant port on the manifold.  I added a stainless ball valve (BPT), then ran some vinyl hose, which has a further inline stopcock, before another short section with a garden-hose connection on it.  This connects to the submersible pump in the bucket which you will see at the end.

Also in the rear section, I cut the cooling water discharge line from the rear aircon unit and added a tee with a new section of reinforced tubing to run all the way to where the forward units discharge.  I had to cut one hole with a hole saw to get there.


Next, in the forward section, I cut and tee'd into each of the forward 3 lines.  Those 3, plus the line from the aft unit, meet at a 4 port bronze manifold.  In normal operation, the ball valves are closed and zip tied, so discharge water just continues to the normal outlet.



In flushing mode, (a) close the 4 aircon discharges, (b) close all aircon supplies on the rear manifold except for the one you desire to flush, (c) open the one ball valve on the forward manifold that you are flushing, (d) fill the bucket with about 4 gallons of Barnacle Buster, (e) open the ball valve on the supply manifold, and (f) turn on the pump.  Leave each circuit for 30-60 minutes.



After flushing all 4 lines, individually, it is time to empty the bucket and give it a freshwater rinse.  To do this, close the flushing valves, then open one of the discharge through hull valves.  The pump will push it all out.  Now, run a freshwater hose from the dock to the bucket and turn the pump back on.  Repeat for each circuit.  The water, filled with decaying marine life, was quite odorous in the open bucket.  The basket strainer did catch about a teaspoon of hard shells.

When finished with the rinse, I decided to use this system to put some non-toxic antifreeze in the lines.  I filled the bucket with 4 gallons of antifreeze.  I went back to "flushing" mode.  When pink started to flow from the return line for each circuit, I knew it had some in there.  Once setup for flushing, I don't think it took more than 5 minutes to do the antifreeze step.

The one area that isn't flushed is important: the seawater intake through the filter/strainer & pump.  I'm saving that for the next haulout.  I will change to a better through-hull and filter/strainer as Rick installed.  At that time, I'll add a T off the line so that I flush through the strainer & pump, too.

Jon
S/V Lyn
2017 Hanse 588 | Hull 19 | Deep draft | 150hp | 220v & 110v systems | Lithium House Bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2023 at 01:40
nice job.


Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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boomjack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2023 at 10:45
Hi Rick, I really like your new manifold and will take the opportunity of winter break to do some maintenance.
Where did you find both, the manifold and the new filter you installed, please?
I think it's a good improvment!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2023 at 14:06
Everything is standard groco parts from defender marine.   Just need to be clear on the sizing as well as the connection points.

Rick
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2023 at 14:33
Thanks Rick!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2023 at 16:22
You also seemed to have gone with stainless versus my bronze.    Your choice,  but I guess I'm a traditionalist. :-)


Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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