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H388 Polar Table

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cintra View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 March 2021 at 11:08
Hi, 
Has anybody tried and entered performance data for the H388 into the B&g Zeus Plotter? 
What’s the best way? 
Take the Numbers from the polar Diagrams manually or is there some digital version I could Upload?

Thanks!!
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mglonnro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2021 at 15:16
Originally posted by cintra cintra wrote:

Hi, 
Has anybody tried and entered performance data for the H388 into the B&g Zeus Plotter? 
What’s the best way? 
Take the Numbers from the polar Diagrams manually or is there some digital version I could Upload?

Thanks!!

The factory provided Zeus3 (along with the other standard+optional B&G components) doesn't support polars, does it? I was under the impression that polar tables come only with the H5000 system?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cintra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2021 at 22:15
there is a Table in the Zeus, Hidden very Well beyond the Laylines menu, where you can enter the TWA and Target speeds upwind and dwn reaching for 5,10,15 and 20 kts TWS. 

Obviously no Upload.

Now I am Looking for exactly those targets...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2021 at 07:17
Cool!

I did some polar comparisons on the blog and extracted the values from Hanse's own performance charts into ORC-like values. 

The raw data is here, but I can write some conversion code if you want it in TWA/speed format :)

Hanse 388 with jib only: 

module.exports = {
  Allowances: {
Beat:[1228.66,990.22,863.38,777.25,735.33,716.44,689.74],
Run:[1285.72,980.93,800,679.25,597.02,545.46,476.82],
BeatAngle:[45.63,44.07,43.83,42.97,42.02,41.7,41.23],
GybeAngle:[179.9,179.9,179.9,179.9,179.9,179.9,179.9],
R52:[782.61,641.71,563.38,517.24,487.8,478.09,467.53],
R60:[730.22,604.03,536.51,495.87,469.97,456.27,446.65],
R75:[692.31,576,517.99,481.28,459.77,441.18,419.09],
R90:[704.5,584.42,524.02,486.49,464.52,447.76,416.67],
R110:[816.33,662.98,574.16,524.02,489.13,467.53,435.31],
R120:[920.72,725.81,619.62,552.15,509.92,481.93,446.1],
R135:[1087.61,835.27,694.98,604.03,542.17,504.91,456.85],
R150:[1192.05,911.39,746.89,641.71,568.72,523.26,466.32],
  }
};

Hanse 388 with jib and downwind sail (don't know exactly what sail they are using here): 

module.exports = {
  Allowances: {
Beat:[1228.66,990.22,863.38,777.25,735.33,716.44,689.74],
Run:[1078.39,832.51,688.33,597.75,541.88,499.75,448.27],
BeatAngle:[45.63,44.07,43.83,42.97,42.02,41.7,41.23],
GybeAngle:[143,148.53,152.43,160.73,166.58,170.68,174.36],
R52:[782.61,641.71,563.38,517.24,487.8,478.09,467.53],
R60:[730.22,604.03,536.51,495.87,469.97,456.27,446.65],
R75:[692.31,576,517.99,481.28,459.77,441.18,419.09],
R90:[650.99,538.92,481.28,453.97,446.1,437.42,416.67],
R110:[658.14,538.92,480,448.88,425.03,403.14,385.85],
R120:[681.82,555.56,490.46,457.43,433.73,411.43,371.13],
R135:[772.53,616.44,530.19,482.57,455.12,431.65,393.44],
R150:[930.23,720,598.01,528.63,486.49,458.02,416.18],
  }
};

The wind speeds are TWS 6;8;10;12;14;16;20
the R-angle values are seconds per nautical mile so 782.61 => 3600s / 782.61s = 4.6 knots.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cintra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2021 at 10:26
Oh that's you Mikael, didn't recognize you yesterday. 

I got the new boat 3 weeks ago, she is still in Greifswald while I am trying to figure out the best moment to bring her to the Netherlands, covid-wise. Therefore, I am currently planning to drive a couple of times up there and get the boat ready-ready for the season. 

So, I spent hours looking up the table in the Zeus menu yesterday morning, it is well hidden in the Chart / Laylines  Menu. See here, Page 19: 

This table asks for upwind / downwind TWAs and boat speed, at 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 kts TWS. 

I also checked your blog and identified the same boat configuration and same challenge: Hanse gives the polar diagrams with either Jib or Sym Spi. First, I would only order an asym ever, at all, and second, I only have the Crossover Sail by Elvström. (And FCL Elvström Jib and non-furling main) 

So I really hoped to being able copy your targets ;-), especially since you logged them with the same sail config. 

Long story short: could I somehow convince you to share your logged data with me? And, by the way, how do I re-calculate the boat speed in knots from the ORC-values? 

Thanks a lot in advance, hope to go out sailing soon. And take care of the calibration tasks ;-)

J  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:26
Oh, absolutely I will share my data!

I read through your attached document and I see now how it works. (From the ORC model, the gybe and beat angles + speeds for the requested wind speeds.)

I'll get back to you when I have it ready. Will try to incorporate it into UI of https://charlotte.lc somehow. 

What is your level of desired urgency? :)

BR
Mikael


Edited by mglonnro - 29 March 2021 at 11:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cintra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2021 at 12:48
Thank you very much!! 

My level of... ;-) Well, now that I know where to find and how to edit the table, and after entering at least the almost accurate data 🙈 taken from Hanse's Pdf with the wrong sail selection and a lot of guessing, I am honestly relaxed now and happy to wait until you'll find the time. 
I won't be back at the boat until 9 April anyway, and even then not going to win a race there. 

Most of all, I am happy to have something more precise than what Hanse provided, at all. 

BR 
Jörg  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 10:22
Ok, here's one version of our recorded data turned into "polar data" (well, it's not really polar when it's an excel table, but anyway :))


Some notes about trying to sort out valid data: 

- All the values are from six second averages of the actual data (so at 10 Hz for wind, for example, there are on average 60 samples of that in each average point).
- The speed values are MAX(SOG) found when grouped by whole knots TWS and whole degrees TWA (+/- 1 degree in result). So for example, at TWS 10 kt the maximum 6 second SOG average between TWA 44-46 is reported at TWA 45 = 5,44 kt.
- Only samples where (TWS during the sample) >= (TWS during the previous sample) are included to sort out a bit of the momentum issues when the boat keeps going for a while after the wind dies out.
- All the values are real and achieved by sail, but momentum, shifting/varying winds, waves, etc means the graphs aren't that smooth. Also, when making this many different groups (for each whole TWA and each whole TWS), some groups don't have very many 6 second average samples. The more we sail and record, I assume, the smoother it will be :) 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cintra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2021 at 21:48
hallo Mikael, 

Thank you so so much! This is well appreciated, thanks a lot for the effort!

Have a Great Sailing Season !

Jörg 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mglonnro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 16:51
Originally posted by cintra cintra wrote:

hallo Mikael, 

Thank you so so much! This is well appreciated, thanks a lot for the effort!

Have a Great Sailing Season !

Jörg 

Same to you!

And for anyone interested in getting more of the data, I just published a new version of the API so you can get the base data with something like wget or just opening the link on the browser:

1. In 1 kt TWS and 5 deg TWA buckets:

2. In 2 kt TWS and 10 deg TWA buckets:

3. Node.js client for accessing the same API. In the examples some code to make an excel cvs file from the data: 

... and as always, if anyone is interested in connecting and uploading more data for comparing between our boats, here are some instructions for that :)


</end commercial>


Edited by mglonnro - 06 April 2021 at 16:53
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