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How to reverse with the boat?

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Henrik84 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 December 2010 at 18:40
Now is the first season with my Hanse done.
I am very happy with my boat so far.

Something I noticed that it´s very difficult to go back with the boat.
Should I come out from a small space or enter into a pier right, then I must have a lot of speed to have a chance to control the boat.

Anyone else have experience with this?
Is it me who is a bad driver or is it so difficult to control when reversing?

One exampel:
I was in a narrow harbor and would back out of place, the wind came from the side and pushed the boat toward the other boats.

If I had only been able to get some rudder effectiveness at low speed, this had not been a problem at all.
Now I had to run back and forth on the deck to take against the other boats.


Happy New Year all
 
/Henrik


Edited by Henrik84 - 30 December 2010 at 19:06
S/Y LaRey
Hanse 320 #430
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Willem3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willem3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 21:44
Dear Henrik,
It's not you! I have the same problems. To steer into my berth backwards takes some space to get enough speed for the rudder to listen well. When sailing out of the berth it's wise to take a good look at the winddirection and to use that if possible. But sometimes I'm secretely thinking of a bow-thruster. I would not need it very often but the one time ...... . If it's a comfort fot you; my former Dufour 2800 did exactly what she wanted when going backward and that was seldom the same thing I wished. The 320 is far much better. But she is spacious and thus high and catches a lot of wind. But with a little playing the back- and forward I can control her fairly well, even with bad winds.
Regards Wim
Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple
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Henrik84 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henrik84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 21:52
Thank you for the answer.

From the beginning I also had plans to bye a bowthruster.
I have only seen one 320 with a bowthruster and the company i talked to said that it is almost impossible to do because the boat is not deep enough at the bow.
 
/Henrik
S/Y LaRey
Hanse 320 #430
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Nigel Fontaine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nigel Fontaine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 22:28

If I may suggest,.. look to the type of prop installed on your boat.  What you seem to be describing is prop walk.  The tendency of the boat to drift to one side or another while in reverse at low speed.  It is usually in the same direction depending on the cross wind.  I believe it is more prominent on boats with a shaft and fixed propeller.

 

On my current boat I have a 3 blade Autoprop.  It is designed to self adjust blade pitch according to engine rpm.  Although I have no prop walk I still have limited control because of speed.  On other boats the cause is sometimes an offset shaft.  Regardless, often it is necessary to have enough steerage to control the boat which is most difficult in reverse from a stop.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaukaas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 22:59
I've got exactly the same experience during the last three seasons...
With a motor yacht (with a small rudder, and large structure) the problem is even bigger! Ermm

Also if you have a folding propeller; you probably need a whole lot of RPMs to get the blades properly folded out. With my 3-blade Flex-O-Fold I really need to rev up the engine engine to be able to stop or go in reverse.

Wind is really a big problem on the 320 when maneuvering in small harbors, as the boat gets caught by the wind really easy. Side-winds are especially demanding... I always keep track of the wind before looseing any of the moorings, or entering a marina.

Last summer I tried to dock in a mountainous area in Norway (Rosendal gjestehamn) with down currents gusts close to 25 m/s (!) - luckily I had them directly onto the aft-end of the boat, and with some great help from friends and harbor manager we managed to get moored up safely. I never felt so "crippled" behind the wheel ever before... Even with 2500-3000 reversed, it was hard to come to a full stop. Stern%20Smile
(I definitely felt pity for the single-handed German trying to get docked with his beautiful HR31. Somehow we managed to get the lovely boat securely moored up. )

Thus a few bad experiences during the last sesons, trying to "land" sideways onto a quay with gusts from one of the sides, the over-all handling performance is great! Also, a set of 4 huge Plastimo fenders + a two ball-like fenders, have "saved my ass" in more than one occation... Ouch
S/Y Nadun - Hanse 320#171

LG3600 - NOR13510


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Henrik84 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henrik84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 23:18
I don´t understand what the propeller has to do with the reverse steering?

My former boat (maxi 77) could I steer in very low speed so easy, it react on every cm I turned on the tiller.
I know it is a different kind of boat but i got really scared first time i was reversing with my new 320.
 
/Henrik 
S/Y LaRey
Hanse 320 #430
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Nigel Fontaine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nigel Fontaine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2010 at 01:48

I don't begin to understand nor can I explain all that is involved but I do know that there are many factors affecting the issue;

 

1. 2 blade vs 3 vs 4

2. fixed prop vs folding

3. pitch of the propeller

4. amount of freeboard

5. shaft offset

 

In the end, one must instinctively compensate or collide with something.

 

This is just my opinion based on experience.  Possibly someone more leaned can explain it better.

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Henrik84 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henrik84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2010 at 09:47
I am not an expert but does it not have to do with the rudder?
It is hard to steer backwards even if the wind is 0m/s.
/Henrik
S/Y LaRey
Hanse 320 #430
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Peter-Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter-Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2010 at 10:13
@Henrik:

Have you ever tried to go backwards with a long keel yacht? I do so, and i can tell you, a Hanse compared to a long keel yacht is a dream going backwards and i do not think there is much diffrence between your 320 and my 370.
A long keel yacht going backwards does what the yacht wants to do and not what the skipper wants to do ;-)  On a Hanse you are still the man in control even if going backwards, thats the diffrence.

But if you have sidewinds a short keel yacht like our hanses start to move fast sideways (faster than long keel yachts). So it is very important to use the motor correct. short but strong motor pushes are very important. If you start going backwards with low rpm, than you boat will move sideways or start to go a cirlce line. But, if you first give a short but strong push to the motor, than you can reduce the walk a lot. Your boat needs a little speed to react on the rudder! If it moves already, than you can reduce the power on the motor to low rpm! If your boat still tries to go a circle, than you must give sometimes a short push forward to the motor, even if you are going backwards.

The most important thing is: practice.......Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkelund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2010 at 13:14
Hi Henrik

I also find it a little difficult to go reverse, especially as the boat sometimes seems a little too slow to react on steering (at least for me to feel comfortable)Embarrassed

I agree with P-B in that much of the "trick" lies in giving it a good amount of rpms just for a moment when you start going reverse. I also think that both the type of propeller and the design of the rudder influences on manouverability. My KiwiProp seems to work very well going reverse, but I also believe that I would benefit from changing to a new and larger Jefa rudder (RUD34). Apart from being deeper and larger than my existing rudder it is also a little wider in profile, which should improve steering at low speeds.

Since your boat is a 320 your rudder should be of an OK size. On my 342, I have the short rudder designed for the low draft version although mine is the deep draft version. Consequently, the steering capacity is somewhat reduced in every respect.

Ole Kirkelund
"Amani"
Ishøj, Denmark
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