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Jeffa Autopilot Failure

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fulanito View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 April 2018
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fulanito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 04:28
JD
Don't forget that there are only 2 or 3 gear teeth doing the work in the planetary. So mechanical fatigue will aways be a problem.
Once the tooth is broken it will look up the  rudder until the arm is removed. 
Even reduced loads will cause metal fatigue on the same spot. Your DD1 will not be steering from 0 to 25. It will 0 to 5 in a balanced boat. So I personally think that you want gain anything by reducing tbe loads. It is a design issue, that to me is limiting the DD1 unit to be used with 505 rudder.
To me, in my opinion if you need peace of mind, get rid of it.
I live in NZ and the southern Pacific have demonstrated me that DD1 is a toy AP.  Ending up in a  broaching position due to AP been locked up with a broken tooth stack in the planetary loosing your steering is certainly a very dangerous condition. This applies to all electro mechanical systems.
All other boats I had and also crewed in Oceania have hydraulic rams.
Cheers 
GG
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kipwrite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipwrite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 19:25
Fulanito,
You may well be right about the DD1. Needs gentle handling. 
Two questions on your proposed hydraulic unit. 
1- looks like that unit is not recommended in a spot that gets wet. If you're installing in the same spot as the DD1, how will you keep things dry?
2- also curious where are you planning to place the fluid reservoir?
Once you have this installed in February, please post photos and let us know how it performs. 
I'd much rather have a hydraulic unit - if there's one that can work. 
Kipwrite
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tobo2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tobo2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2022 at 18:09
To add another chapter to this unfortunate everlasting DD1 autopilot issue stories: Our 2 years old AP on a new H 508 had to be repaired (in warranty) making funny noises which turned out to be a broken gearwheel. Asking for the reason Jefa CEO Stig Jensen told me that the cause definitely was an overload due to a wrong factory setup of Hanse of the connection arm to the rudder quadrant ( s. pic). The arm must be fixed on the outer pinhole. I wonder if Hanse made this mistake on other 508s? So to all 508 owners: Check the position of your connection arm of the AP to the rudder quadrant and give us a feedback please! Time will show if this helps. I still have my doubts and we will use the AP if possible only in moderate wind and wave conditions. For bluewater sailors Hanse should offer a hardcore version with a stronger AP.




Edited by tobo2 - 12 April 2022 at 18:15
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2022 at 18:39
tobo, my DD1 failed again even after I moved it to the outer hole. The DD1 is not suitable for the Hanse 505 even when installed properly. I upgraded to the DD2. Expensive, but no problems since then. 
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tobo2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tobo2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2022 at 18:26
Hi othetrees, I followed your change closely but during warranty time it is not possible to change the AP as it is not homologated by Hanse. I also don't think that a dealer would dare doing this job. Besides that the motor and the cables of your DD2 are unprotected and take away considerable space of the lazarette. In addition I have never heard or read of a 508 owner doing this change.


Edited by tobo2 - 13 April 2022 at 18:27
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SVZara View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVZara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2022 at 07:10
I am still following this on going issue here.  I haven't had issue yet with my DD1 but I am basically expecting it at some point.  We have had long passages in extreme conditions but somehow came out unscathed.  Not sure how long this will last.  I am hoping a better solution will emerge.  I never had these worries with my Raymarine unit on my last boat.  Such a bummer.
Marc
S/V Zara
2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129
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Samtutuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Samtutuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2022 at 08:26
If you look at the Jefa web site they do not recommend the DD1 for ships your size!
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SVZara View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVZara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2022 at 09:21
Yes, I know.  Its been discussed in detail in this thread that I have been following.  I am expecting it to fail someday.  I really want to install a hydraulic linear drive unit some how.
Marc
S/V Zara
2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129
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Nelson01 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nelson01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2022 at 07:35
Very sadly,I have just joined the club of Auto Pilot failure.

Donny (name of 3rd crew, the AP),started making some noise, but mostly, the helming became stiff when moved to standby.After a few days ,Donny died.

Since this an issue experienced by many 508 owners, we decided we would need back up, because you never know when/where failure will occur.So we dug our hands in our pocket and ordered another DU-DD1 and will keep original one for back up.Luckily,Sail Service (Italy) had inventory, and a few days later received, installed and on our way.Easy install, one of the few times in boat work where a 2 hour job takes 2 hours!!


We did open up Donny to inspect and found some broken gears and very milky oil/grease ........water ingress.We did not tear it up further and will send to JEFA for rebuild.

But when we got Donny2,we had a surprise in the box.The tiller arm is not the same length as the original.It has a second hole (35mm) further.

So as I sit here wondering, do we use outside placement or not?Also,does anyone have this new arrangement?After all the previous discussion on angle and positioning of tiller arm, why does JEFA redesign the arm?

In the meantime, we installed on inner bolt,and are trying to get answer from Jefa on this issue.



Marc


Marc

H508#11 UNEVIE
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Captain Cook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2022 at 09:07
You should use the inner hole, like I did. I have since then removed the outer part of the aluminium arm. Lots of technical drawings on the Jefa homepage. Your old tiller arm also had two holes, before Jefa cut off the outer part. The reason for the extra hole, is that with this design the arm can fit other boats as well.
If you find my boat a bit dirty, I should mention, that my harbour at the time was located alongside a coal-fired heating station with four large chimneys.




Edited by Captain Cook - 26 May 2022 at 12:30
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)
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