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lifepo4 batteries

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H8jer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 May 2020 at 16:08
The house/consumer batteries are ready for replacement.

I am about to install a Sterling Alternator to Battery Charger AB1280( my yanmar only has a 60amps generator so ab12130 is overkill)
Has anyone else installed this and where?
If I get the remote-meter I hide it somewhere as the voids below the circuit-board is very limited.
This Altornator charger is needed when using lithum based batteries as they can damage the altornator when they stop recieving charge.

Lifepo4 batteries are not prone to catch fire and I think they are safe to use in boats now. They all have a sub-zero temp charge issue, but we use the boat heater and newer has sub-zero in the cabin..Wacko

In my Hanse 370 I have 3 batteries 270mmx170mmx210mm (L/W/H) but I believe I can fit upto 350mmx170x230mm.


This makes it possible to get batteries from an UK supplier, 12v 100A Lipofe4 Smart Battery:
This battery is on ebay for approx. 580 Euro. I would need 3 pcs.

Another choice is from a danish retailer:
About 620 euro

Has anyone done this conversion to lifepo4 and could provide some advice?

Kind regards

/h8jer






Edited by H8jer - 23 May 2020 at 16:29
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin
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Forth2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forth2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 07:03
I have installed LFP batteries.
It is a hybrid system with a LA starter battery and a LFP house battery.

The alternator is charging the LA and the LFP is connected in parallell with the LA battery by the LFP BMS charger. 

In this design the LFP can be disconnected safely, because there is a starter battery that will absorb the charging current coming from the alternator.

The LPF is connected to the LA battery by the BMS if the LA voltage is over 13 volts and higher than the LFP voltage (=charge is available).

The BMS charges  until 14 volts and 1 A charge current is reached.

The BMS also has a low voltage disconnect to protect the LFP battery from full discharge.

For details, here is a site with good information.

LA = Lead Acid
LFP = LiFePo4
BMS = Battery Management System



Edited by Forth2 - 16 June 2020 at 21:00
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jeb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 07:06
I have just installed 400 Ah Winston LiFePo4. During this process I removed my battery to battery charger that was installed under the small bench in the port aft cabin (Hanse400) since it cost like 15% in charging efficiency. I don’t se how it should protect your alternator better than a split diode or relay. I would recommend to keep your start battery and use a victron cyrix li ct instead. Connect all chargers to the start battery.

Jesper
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 10:03
Originally posted by Forth2 Forth2 wrote:


For details, here is a site with good information.



My Hanse 370 came with a battery-isolator that splits the charge from the altornator. And reading through the article it looks like this is one of the ways to do it, if I leave the lead-acid start-battery in place.

The AB1280 is not completly nessary but this weekend we run the batteries flat to 9,9 volts and when we ran the engine the max charge current from the altornator was 24 amps which is about a third of what the altornator is rated for. So adding the AB1280 will thus after all be an improvement.

We also have a Sterling ProCharge Ultra 60A and it can be set to "Lifepo4", but now it is set for Sealed Lead Acid. I have 3 battery banks:
60A Starter
3x90A consumer
2x102A for bowthruster/anchor+winches in cockpit

Both the AB1280 and the Charger should be able of handling Lifepo4 but they only has One setting. So what do I use in a Hybrid setup?
I consider not having a separate bank for the high current devices but joining the large banks to one single. But the article states that this will slowly drain the Lifepo4 as they will try to charge the Lead Acid batteries in that setup.
Much to consider...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forth2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 12:29
Originally posted by H8jer H8jer wrote:

The AB1280 is not completly nessary but this weekend we run the batteries flat to 9,9 volts and when we ran the engine the max charge current from the altornator was 24 amps which is about a third of what the altornator is rated for. So adding the AB1280 will thus after all be an improvement.

Probaly not. Even if the Hitachi alternator has a 60 Amp specification, to prevent the alternator from burning up, the stock regulator has a quite aggressive temperature compensation.

Instead I have purchased a 120 Amp alternator upgrade kit from Yanmar to my 3YM20.
It also has a wider belt and new pulleys to handle the bigger load. I hope that will give more charge current. Have not yet installed it.
Originally posted by H8jer H8jer wrote:

Both the AB1280 and the Charger should be able of handling Lifepo4 but they only has One setting. So what do I use in a Hybrid setup?
 
You need to use the LFP setting in order to charge the LiFePo in a safe way.
But you also need a LFP regulator in the alternator in a simple hybrid bank.
I am an engineer, so I built a custom BMS suited to my specifications.
All my chargers charge with a LA setting, and then I have a custom LA to LFP BMS.

I am not so familiar with the commercial products.
Originally posted by H8jer H8jer wrote:

Much to consider...

Experts on the Internet say "there is no such thing as a drop in LFP battery" Tongue


Edited by Forth2 - 24 May 2020 at 12:30
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jeb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 16:28
The sterling ab1280 cut at 70deg. You will reach that temperature in about 20min. If you insist using this device I would skip the temp sensor on the alternator. That was suggested to me by mr Sterling himself. But you will still get a loss of 8-10 amps in the ab1280. I was using the ab1280 on a 80A hitachi and got just below 60 A with a cold alternator and down to 55A when warm. I have now installed an external regulator and can push 95A when cold and 80A when warm. My external regulator does not have a temp sensor. But since I also have built my own BMS I simply added a alternator temp sensor and an enable signal to the external regulator. I’m switching off the external regulator at 90 deg falling back to the internal. This have not happened yet but it’s still cold here in Sweden. 
Jesper
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 20:10
thx to all your advices. Really nice!

The AB1280 was second-hand so this device is perhaps hyped and not worth the money. I will try and jerry-rig it next to the charge-splitter so I can test the performance without drilling new holes in the boat and then deside if it is going out again.

120Amps from 20hp yanmar is impressive.

Btw. Found out the house batteries was only 3x75A and not 3x90A.
Looking at our consumption it is almost 5 amps the whole time because of the fridge.

To sum up, I don't need AB1280 or any other relay/switching device - if I use a charge-splitter and a Hybrid-setup with the lead starterbatter always visible from the altornator.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forth2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 11:02
Maybe you need to isolate your fridge with PU foam?
Or have a service man check your compressor and refrigant levels.

The 5 amps should go down as the box contents has cooled down.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 11:33
I will install a hour-counter to track the compressor run time.

This was also done in our old boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 14:47
Well I am also considering a change from the worn out 2 * 165 Ah and 96 kg's AGM's to LiFePo.
I have installed a hour counter for my standard Hanse Indel Fridge and found out over a month that the running time of the fridge is 40% with +/- 5 Amps consumption.
With plotter, instruments, fridge, iPad/iphone and autopilot my day consumption amounts to 10-11 Amps.
So a 12 hour "shift" is 90-96 Ah, meaning that your state of charge goes down from 100% to 73 %, if your battery bank is still fresh  storing 100% of the nominal capacity.
 
Space in the battery compartment on my H 345 under the port settee is limited. Any LFP with a height over 240 mm will not fit. This means that a change to LFP will need to fit into the volume 458*344*240 mm ( L, W, H ).
240 and 344 mm are hard limits, I think that you can manage 510 mm long batt bank into the existing space.
 
My dealer thinks that 200 Ah will do the job, based on my consumption I doubt it. I am interested to learn if you can really reduce the AH's so much. A direct replacement with 2 160 AH LFP's will cost approx. 4000 €.
 
 


Edited by Fendant - 25 May 2020 at 15:41
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