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Lithium batteries

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boomjack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lithium batteries
    Posted: 18 January 2021 at 21:51
Hi there,

I remember a post on this forum about lithium batteries, who was it and is there any positive return on this upgrade?
Thanks and best regards,
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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2021 at 08:31
Yep,

my 2 AGM's 165 Ah died at the end of season 2019 after 3 years of service. I could only get aaboz 20-30 Ah out of them before an abrupt voltage loss to ~11 V.

I decided to replace them by 2* 100Ah Victron LiFePo's in spring with BMS and Cyris Lithium Charge. The Victron rep in Murten/Morat was extremely helpful in the planning stage.  Sterling Charger and Alternator were not touched. The alternator charges the LiFePo's with 30 - 60 Amps, so 30 minutes engine returning to port brings them back to >95% after a full day. If you have any specif questions pls PM me.
Frank
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G8WVW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G8WVW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2021 at 10:51
Hi,

I managed to squeeze 600Ah of lithium in the space of two old 165Ah AGMs. It was however a major project and could not recommend it to anybody who isn't totally committed to a big project.

Three Victron 100Ah batteries would have been more sensible!

Cheers.


Andrea & Ian
Aboard SV Gabrielle (H445 #164)
Portishead, SW England.
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boomjack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2021 at 15:16
Hi there, thanks both of you for these valuable informations. I understand form your explanation that it is a real job... One question for Frank since you are also in Switzerland, what's the name of the victron s man in Morat, and one more question out of curiousity : where do you keep your boat?

Many thanks and best regards,

my email : dominique@vananty.ch
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tobo2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tobo2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2021 at 15:25
Hi Boomjack, we own a new 508 and installed a Lithium package as a buffer between the AGMs and the solar panels. As we are also Swiss (at the moment in Greifswald) you can send me a PM to pass on further infos. The installation really is demanding, so I recommend to leave it to the experts.


Edited by tobo2 - 21 January 2021 at 10:59
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2021 at 21:29
We had the 4 165AH AGM Victron batteries and were massively disappointed in their quality and service life. As stated before,   I would supposedly get to 70% state of charge when the voltage would drop to about 11V.   Inverter, refrigeration, everything stopped working at that point.    What good is a 165AH battery if you can only get 30% out of it?

I looked at Lithium and it simply required too many things to change.  Regulators, alternator changes,  etc..etc..   In addition to being about 4 times more expensive.

I decided to go with Firefly Carbon Foam batteries.   While only 116AH each,  they are the size of a group 31.   I replaced my 4 165AH AGMs with 6 Firefly 116AH batteries and have been very happy.    I can draw them down to below 50% SOC and no problems with voltage.   No alternator changes, etc, either.   As far as my system is concerned, they are an AGM.    So now I have an approximately 700AH bank I can take down below 50% SOC rather than a 660AH bank that I only get to 70% before the voltage is unusable. 

My 700Watts of solar on top of the bimini and the 4 MPPT controllers for the 5 panels keeps things topped off nicely.    In the peak of summer, only 90 minutes with the panels providing about 50AMPS into the batteries.

I did have to expand my battery box but that wasn't much of an issue on the 575.   I had plenty of space in front of the old box.   See picture.

The Firefly batteries are highly rated yet not so expensive that 6 will break the bank. 






Edited by Black Diamond - 24 January 2021 at 21:35
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2021 at 22:35
Hi Rick, 

Are the firefly precisely the same dimensions of the victron? Could you use the same cables? Admittedly, without adding two extra batteries is probably equivalent in terms of stored and usable energy... I use a ratio 65%/55% for the usable range of SOC...but the may last longer and indeed the extra price is not outrageous... 

Hanse588#55
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2021 at 01:03
They are slightly smaller than the Victron, but you can still fit only 4 where there were 4 before.  I did NOT have to change the existing battery box.    I just added two more to the storage space just forward of the existing battery box, which required putting some walls and restraints there.

Yes.. you can use the same cables, but if you add batteries you obviously need to have additional cables and be sure to keep the end-runs the same (ie.  opposite ends of the now larger bank).

The reviews have been good so far, and I really like not having to deal with all the other changes LiFP04 requires..

See below for specs and other details:





Edited by Black Diamond - 25 January 2021 at 01:19
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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brianmackenzie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmackenzie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2021 at 14:28
I second what Black Diamond has said about the Firefly batteries. Lithium's are nice but it is hard to justify the cost and all the other changes that are required. I added 15 Firefly 116Ah batteries for a total of 1,740Ah to my 588. A Victron battery monitor was also added. I use the generator to give them a quick charge. No need for solar and all the extra expense. We have power for days with everything running. 


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S&J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2021 at 18:52
That is quite an impressive battery bank and a really neat installation
I'm not sure if Firefly are readily available in UK / Europe.  Does anyone know of a supplier?!

H458 #159 Primal launching spring 2021
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