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Main Sheet system

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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 August 2020 at 22:37
Hello, I'm a newer owner of a 2015 Hanse 505. I've had the boat for about 9 months now, and recently sailed her from Hawaii to Seattle. 

I have a question about the way our main sheets are rigged. 

Several online sources mention a German or double-ended Mainsheet system. Not sure if there is a distinction there.

However, my boat is set up with two completely independent main sheets, which I've seen referred to online as a double main-sheet system. 

A well known rigger in Hawaii insisted on calling mine a German System, despite the two sheets being completely independent. So there is room for confusion, and I'm not sure I have the factory setup, or something dreamed up by the previous owner.

Incidentally, over time, I've grown to quite like my double setup, it gives me great control, comparable to a traveler setup, and allows me to get the boom up fully to the center of the boat and beyond when I'm pointing, and makes jibing a breeze to do safely and smoothly. I feel I can put the boom exactly where I want it on any point of sail. However, I don't have a ton of mechanical advantage and all strain is  potentially on one sheet (and therefore block and pad-eye) at a time. 

So my question to you all is, is your main sheet one long sheet which can be trimmed equally on either end? Or is it like mine, independent port and starboard sheets? 
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Matt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2020 at 02:37
The one long sheet with both ends led back to the cockpit is the factory standard setup.

Funnily enough I was having this very discussion with my rigger last week while lamenting the lack of traveller. He had suggested doing exactly what your previous owner has done for offshore work i.e. two independent sheets although he did not refer to it as German style it was something else that escapes me. What he did describe is using 2:1 between deck and boom blocks to maintain mechanical advantage. Is this how you are setup out of interest?

Itís an interesting choice given the control you and he both describe but unfortunately interferes with my current third reef tack line in offshore configuration when I change to a single ended setup on the main sheet and run the third reef tack line back to the cockpit on the freed up deck hardware and clutch. Of course I could always cobble together a single line setup for the third reef as other forum members have done.
HANSE 445 #231 "ALBION"
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2020 at 04:47
What is the mechanical advantage of the stock set up?

If I am not making a silly mistake, I believe my system is 3:1 for each sheet. I might retract the idea that I donít have enough mechanical advantage. When I think about it, the winch pulls the boom in  easily even in strong wind. I was feeling that way because once in a gust the main sheet pulled through the clutch. But I think the teeth in that clutch may be a bit worn, and maybe the problem is more the clutch than the lack of mechanical advantage. 

Can anyone tell if my blocks are upsized from stock? Not sure why the photo is showing up
Sideways. 


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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2020 at 08:01
The continuous line , which can be operated from both helm positions is generally referred to as *the German mainsheet system". The advantage is that you have full control from both helm positions for adjusting/easing  the main. The disadavantage is that the system flexes in a gust depending on the strength / elasticity of the ropes you are using. I clearly see the advantage of you systems for long ocean passages or a bigger crew whilst racing.  The "German mainsheet system is advantageous when you have to tack very often in narrow waters and/or when you are sailing singlehanded.
For better boom control I changed to a bridle:







Frank
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S&J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2020 at 09:03
Just wondering if having two separate sheets would put greater loads on the active sheet and associated blocks.  Could this have contributed to your mainsheet padeye failure?
I am also frustrated by the lack of control the German system gives.  I tried a bridle but didn't like that much either.  I guess I could try out the two sheet arrangement by locking the sheet in some way at the mast...
H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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Sandy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2022 at 02:32
my 470 has been changed from original and only have one main sheet through clutch to one winch on port side. 
Given I mostly sail single handed I want the German mainsheet system and would like to see anyones photos or diagnrams showing me how to configure it. 
Thank you 
Sandy. 
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2022 at 03:13
I think it is conceivable that changing to the double main sheet system contributed to my pad eye failure. However, having looked at how small those reinforcement plates were, and how large the loads can be on the main sheet (for example during an unintentional gybe, which my incident was not), I still think the stock pad eyes are much too weak. However, after putting backing plates on mine, and putting 7000 nm  on the boat, sailing from Hawaii to Seattle and then to Panama, Iím quite satisfied that mine are strong enough for my double mainsheet set up, which I now prefer to the German setup. I really appreciate the great boom control, and extra safety of gybing in difficult conditions. Downsides are it is slower, and I must go back and forth between two winches. 
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SVZara View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVZara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 02:06
Your double mainsheet solution is very intriguing for me.  I do 5-6 ocean races a season and have wanted more control of the boom especially when beating upwind and being able to flatten the leach.  
Marc
S/V Zara
2016 Hanse 505, Hull #129
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ohthetrees View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohthetrees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2022 at 02:43
If you race, and you want better control of your sail shape, I really recommend the change. I would beef up your pad eyes, and maybe switch to larger blocks. 
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chillios View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chillios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2022 at 23:50
Caution:
Both the Bridal and double main sheet system significantly increase the load on the leeward side padeye.

To distribute the load in the bridal solution, you would need to run the strop through a block so that the load is distributed between the 2 padeyes. 

We, like Sandy have modified our line setup to only have a single sided sheet.   This allowed us to add a 3rd reef in our main. 

If there was a way to distribute the load in the double sheet system, I do think itís interesting as it has a built in preventer that would come in quite handy on long downwind passages. 

-Chris
  
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