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Philippi tank monitor (and sensors)

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Sportswagoneer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sportswagoneer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2021 at 06:52
Hi Harold.

In my Hanse 400 2010, I measured the depth of the tanks at the sensor location and ordered as follows:

Water tank (S3 screw fit): 33cm. Ordered a 300 (30cm) sensor.
Diesel tank (S5 5 bolt): 24cm. Ordered a 200 (20cm) sensor.
I ordered both in European scale (0-190 Ohms) and in “High resolution”. (Really not sure how important the resolution is - but I figured that the tanks were rather shallow - so I might as well.)

They’re working fine with the Cerbo - and as of the last software version you can add specific measurement values to compensate for the tank shape.

Best of luck!


Edited by Sportswagoneer - 18 January 2021 at 06:56
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DJgun View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2021 at 03:02
The tank shape is quite "interesting" to say the least. Hanse and the tank manufacturer have gone to a bit of effort to maximise volume in the space they allocated.

The shape is a little bit like a triangular prism when viewed from the side, I.e. looking from centreline of hull to the tank face.the result of this shape is that by the time the fuel is down to say 75mm deep there is less than 10 litres of fuel in the tank, and you should not be trying to run with less.

The photos of gauge earlier in this post show the non-linearity of fuel level.
Certainly a floating arm will give very  poor resistance- fuel remaining relationship. Linear float sensors will be better but not linear.

Calibrating the sensor by filling up from near empty 10 litres at a time and  recording the measurements  is a good solution, but a pain in the neck to implement at a busy fuel wharf.

Has anyone else done a volume vs depth calculation for the H400 tank?

I find the fibreglass bonding the tank to the hull gets in the way of accurate  dimensional measurements, and the subsequent volume calculations are difficult because of the multiple bends in the bottom of the tank. Maybe the tank supplier can tell us? I will ask them.

Using Arduino with look up table, it should be possible to create a quite accurate fuel gauge procedure accurate level is known when stationary.
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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2021 at 05:14
Do you have the 160 ltr Polyethylene tank ? 

If so please PM me, I have made a calibration curve in 2013 and can send you the powerpoint.

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2021 at 09:27
Mine has an aluminium tank, but thank you for the offer. Is your tank also 140 litres?
The sender fitted is a VDO lever arm type

226-801-015-001C  or G


It seems the resistance on my sender is incorrect as I have measured it 240ohms tank full, rather than 180 ohm expected for VDO sender.

Cheers DJ 


Edited by DJgun - 03 May 2021 at 06:03
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Sportswagoneer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sportswagoneer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2021 at 18:39
Originally posted by Fendant Fendant wrote:

Do you have the 160 ltr Polyethylene tank ? 

If so please PM me, I have made a calibration curve in 2013 and can send you the powerpoint.

Fendant: I believe my heavy black plastic tank is the Polyethylene version. Would love to see your calibration curve! Please see PM.
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DJgun View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DJgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2021 at 10:41
I have measured the aluminium tank in my 400e, then made calculations of remaining fuel vs level of fuel from top of the tank. I made a graph but can't figure out how to post in this message, so I have included it below in table format.

 You will see that at approx 50% depth (15cm) there is only around 30 litres of fuel remaining. 
50% fuel remaining occurs when the level is only down only about 8cm in a tank 30cm deep.

I have concluded the most accurate way to determine fuel level is to fit a small inspection cap, and use a wooden dipstick, then compare depth of fuel with the table below.


Litres Dist to Top (cm)


0.1 28.0
0.6 27.1
1.3 26.1
2 25.1
4 24.2
5 23.2
7 22.2
9 21.3
12 20.3
15 19.3
18 18.4
21 17.4
25 16.4
29 15.5
34 14.5
38 13.5
44 12.6
49 11.6
55 10.6
61 9.7
68 8.7
75 7.7
82 6.8
89 5.8
97 4.8
105 3.9
113 2.9
122 1.9
131 1.0
140 0.0

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Bruno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 02:08
Hello Paul,

I purchased a KUS (ex-Wema) fuel sensor unit (JS61045) which, is a float on an axis to replace the original automotive sensor (lever). As you can see, the black wire is the ground connected to the tank and a white and blue wires to the sensor.


My new sensor as a black (ground) and a blue wire. How did you connect your new sensor?

Thank you,
Bruno

Bruno

Hanse 400, 2010 Hull 660, Canadian flag sailing Lake Champlain, VT USA
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pdc78 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdc78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 06:14
Hi Bruno

The standard automotive style sensor that Hanse have fitted is a resistance based one and I think the KUS device you have purchased has the correct 0-190 ohm (European type) resistance range.  It therefore doesn't matter which way round you connect the two active wires because the gauge or panel is only detecting resistance across the two wires.  I have a plastic tank and therefore no ground is required.  I suggest you continue to use the black from your cabling loom to connect to the tank (ground), and use the sensor black and blue wires to connect where the white and blue wires were connected.

I just checked the KUS part number you quoted and I am concerned that it says S3.  Please check that the mounting pattern the same as the lever style in your photo.  I fear that the S3 is a screw thread mounting rather than the SAE 5 hole flange mounting.  You may need to buy an adapter or a different KUS sender.

Good luck,  Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 08:30
Hi to all,

My original black water sensors stopped working. They are black, with a capsule at the end with a couple of wires that, I guess, senses when they are bent. Anyway, they didn't work anymore, and I couldn't find straight replacements. 

I replaced them with two black water osculati, 10-180 ohm, like the water level because I had a good experience with the water tank, it works flawlessly after replacement. 

However, I suspect it's the wrong impedence, it could have been 230-30 ohm because, empty, I read 75%, the reasoning being that 30+(230-30)*0.75=180. Then, it suddenly switches to zero as soon as the level goes up.

Despite the fact I have a czone too, these sensors are on the original wurth. Do you know if there is a way to configure the wurth to read these levels in the 10-180 ohm range, like for the white water tank? There is obviously some adc somewhere, and the voltage reading is converted to a scale. 
Hanse588#55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DJgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2021 at 00:36
The original fuel level sensor in the aluminium tank is a VDO Marine sensor, and I suspect normally very reliable. Despite that mine failed after 14 years. 
Because of the non-linear nature of tank depth vs volume, I have used a 225 long reed switch with float type sensor, so it will show empty when there is just 8 litres left in the tank. It has 21mm resolution. The original  LED bar light gauge now reads properly.

I purchased the sensor through AliExpress, carefully choosing the best resolution, and it is a drop in replacement for about $25.



Edited by DJgun - 19 June 2021 at 00:38
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