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Watermaker 2018

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 575/588
Forum Description: 575/588 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10755
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 18:02
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Watermaker 2018
Posted By: Elgaard
Subject: Watermaker 2018
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 18:12
Hello Fellas.

So its time to install some new gear, this time a new water maker, it seems like a jungle of products, any experiences with whats good and whats not, I currently have no idea what to buy... 

Whats top shelf products in 2018 ? 

Experiences much appreciated. 

Best 
Elgaard.


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Hanse 575 Hull 108

Cruising : Currently in the Med



Replies:
Posted By: marcopone
Date Posted: 05 June 2018 at 20:42
I installed a 100 l/h Schenker two years ago.
It is the 12V version.
I can switch it on when motoring in calm sea.
So far so good.
I fit it in the bow owner cabin under the berth, in front of the water tank.
You use space that would be wasted.
I think it is a better position than sail locker.


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 02:23
We just installed a Blue Water Desalination unit producing 38 GPH.     Its a fairly compact installation and it fits nicely in the systems cabin/C3 layout we have.  See pictures..









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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI


Posted By: Touch of Grey
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 02:56
I installed the Schenker Smart 30 (about 25 litres/hr) on our 415 in Sept 2016 and it has lived up to expectations ... reliable and relatively low current draw (8-9 amps). Finding a home for it was made easier by the device being in two medium sized parts: the pump (which is under a bunk) and the RO/Energy Recovery System (which is in a locker).

The downside to a watermaker is the maintenance overhead, needing to pickle it if it isn't going to be used for a while and winterising it with food grade propylene glycol if sub-zero temperatures are a possibility. It's not something you can install and forget.


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Allan Fraser


Posted By: Elgaard
Date Posted: 22 August 2018 at 03:03
Seems impossible to pick on of another, theres loads of Watermakers... what should i focus on ? 

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Hanse 575 Hull 108

Cruising : Currently in the Med


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 22 August 2018 at 10:50
This will end up like anchors.   Lots of opinions....

Mine:

  1. production - how. much water does it make per hour
  2. installation - how much space does it need and where would it go?  22 inch membranes or 44 inch?
  3. 12V vs AC - usually related to whether you want things solar based as well as (1) above..  More GPH usually means AC.   Top end for DC watermakers seems around 14-17GPH.
  4. Maintenance - standard, easily obtainable, filters and easy access in case repairs are needed
  5. Noise - they *ALL* make noise if there is a high pressure pump involved.  You need to decide what is acceptable.
  6. Brand stability - this is tough, because so many of the big brands (like SPECTRA) are now part of bigger companies (like Parker-RACOR).   Being part of a big company is not always good.  It means they will be around for a while to help you with warranty issues but sometimes the things you liked when they were independent go away when the parent company focuses on cost control and making more profit.    In the end, you want to know they will be around for a few years.
FWIW



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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI


Posted By: Elgaard
Date Posted: 22 August 2018 at 23:32
Rick. 

I have the Panda 10kw gen, initially i planned on getting something id run when i had the gen on for washing machines, Bauer JR compressor etc , so noise in that case wouldnt matter as the Panda would be running anyways, so i guess GPH is what im looking at, as well as easy maintanence anywhere in the world, even the most remote places. I dont know what kind of water volume i would even need either, everything is a balance.
 

I would love not having to run the Gen more than an hour or two a week but that leads to another issue, having a look at my power usage in general, would love to add 3m2 solar panels  " in front on the sprayhood" if its worth it?


Marco, 

That sounds interesting, 12v system and 100l/h while motoring and yes i also figured i would find space under the berth next to the water tank....  Ill have a read up on that aswell, thank you.

In general i would like to be alot more efficient with my power usage, i dont like to run motor or gen more than i have to.


Best 
Elgaard




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Hanse 575 Hull 108

Cruising : Currently in the Med


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 23 August 2018 at 00:50
Elgaard,

We have the same 10000i Panda genset.   its the same as the Mini-8 here in the US and I had that on my Hylas 49 for 10 years.  I liked it, although generators are also like anchors (opinions everywhere).

I have an AC watermaker (Bluewater Desalination Express) which runs when the generator is on.   I went with one that makes 38 GPH so that I don't need the generator on for more than an hour or so.  This year, spending 10 days on Nantucket and another 10 on Martha's Vineyard,   I ran the generator for a little over 2 hours and made 100 gallons of water.   If you want volume, quickly, then an AC unit is the way to go.   If you can live with the unit running for 3-4 times as long for the same volume, then a DC unit is OK.    The largest DC unit we thought made sense for our boat was the Spectra Newport MK400 unit which made 12-14 GPH.    In the end we went with Bluewater Desalination as it was all MilSpec hardware, industry standard filters, and heavy duty in all respects.   Spectra just got bought by Parker-Racor and so we had some concerns with what might happen to (until now) a good brand and good watermaker line as a result.

Its a fairly compact unit,  mounted in the systems cabin (the C3 layout) aft of the refrigerator/freezer compartments.  Its in there with my tools, cleaning stuff, brooms, mops and the washer/dryer.  They made 22" membranes for me, so i have 2 membranes. If I ever wanted more thru-put from the unit,  I can add a third 22" membrane and pretty much get a proportional increase in GPH.   One thing you might consider:   I had a stainless steel tray made to sit under the unit.  When you change filters or service the unit you can get spills and this keeps things contained.   See picture.   

We did *NOT* go with all the bells and whistles.  For example,  there are sensor based installations where the watermaker will automatically kick on when the tank goes below X%.     Personally,  if something is running at 800 psi for a couple hours on my boat,  I'd like to be there monitoring it.

We have the washer dryer and the dishwasher in our boat.   The washer dryer takes 7 gallons per load (including drying, which for some reason I cannot understand needs water to dry clothes!?).   The dishwasher (we think) uses a couple of gallons, but that's one of the two drawers.  I'm not sure if we ran both drawers at the same time.

I also put solar panels on my bimini (flexible solbian panels).  There was room for probably 2000 watts of panels but I ended up putting 700 watts which, on a sunny day, generates about 40 amps going into the batteries.  Maybe more if the load was there, but I've not seen more than 40 so far.   That's all I need.  My goal was to simply make sure my refrigeration and freezer were well powered and that the batteries had enough for the lights and nightly needs.   The standard Hanse battery bank is not that big (4x165 if you upgraded) and so you need something charging them every day.   I'd rather than not be the engine or generator.   The solar has worked out very well.      See picture again.

The argument you will legitimately get is that if you put solar on your boat you might as well get a DC watermaker.    Its valid if you can live with the lower output of a DC unit.   If you want more GPH, and you will be running your generator in the morning for hot water to shower or wash things,  then an AC unit makes more sense.

Good luck with the decision!








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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI


Posted By: marcopone
Date Posted: 23 August 2018 at 19:42
Where did you fit the 10kw Panda generator?
I have the Fischer Panda 6kw installed in the motor ‘hall’ and there is not any space left for a bigger unit.
6kw is really thight for AC , water maker and induction cooking.
Besides this the Fischer Panda is not reliable, lot of problems.


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 01:57
Sorry.. my generator is an 8KW PANDA.   The European designations are different than the ones sold in the US.   Its in the normal suitcase behind the engine.   We've had good luck with ours.   Clean fuel,  change the oil twice/year, and its been happy.    I keep 3 spares kits on the boat with filters, belts, impellers and a Johnson pump.

My big complaint (and I mentioned this at the factory when I looked at construction and assembly) is that they put the side of the suitcase with all the parts you need to maintain (pumps, impellers, etc.) facing aft rather than forward.  As such its a right angle job to change the impeller.   I asked them if they could simply turn it around. The Hanse team told me they would lose the CE rating for the boat if they did that. 

Sure enough... my generator sucked some eel grass into the strainer the first vacation I took and the impeller (running dry) went.    I learned what a pain it was to replace that day and that they really should get the thing turned around.





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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI


Posted By: marcopone
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 10:38
Thanks Rick.
With the smaller unit, 6kw, it is not so bad to change the impeller.
I had to do it already twice.
Besides having had a major issue the first year, they had to change the whole unit, now I suffer from salt water leakage from the cooling pump. the seal is broken. this bappened also 2 years ago.
there is a lot of salt around the pump.
do you have a whole pump as a spare?
I am not sure you can change the salt water pump without taking out the generator!
In your boat you have the boiler above the Volvo Penta motor or outside above floor?
I think to fit the bigger generator the had to move the boiler from motor hall.


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 11:15
The Johnson pump is a spare, but nothing I expect to use anytime soon.  Just a precaution.   Its reasonably accessible on the 8KW.   Having had the same 8KW on my last boat,  the only thing not in the normal maintenance schedule I'd recommend is cleaning out any buildup in the heat exchanger.   This is with RIDDEX or some kind of CLR product.     Load it thru the strainer,  let it sit in the exchanger for a few minutes and then run it out.    Its the difference between a tiny stream of water coming from the generator and a good cooling stream.    That said,  it was a good generator for us and did not cause any unexpected work.

Our hot water boiler is below the floor on the starboard side by the nav station.   

Remember, the definition of cruising is "Fixing things in exotic places". 




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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI


Posted By: Wayne's World
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 13:58
Marcopone, 

The raw water pump on the 8kw can be removed with the generator in place. There is a bolt which clamps the pump in place which needs to be removed and then the pump can be pulled aft out of the motor casing. The Johnson pumps can be rebuild and the seals replaced. But I keep a spare complete pump so I can change it out if the one in service leaks. I my opinion this Johnson pump is prone to leaking. I have had the pump serviced or replaced 4 times in just over 1,000 hours of running which is very poor.



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Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024


Posted By: marcopone
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 14:12
Good Wayne, thanks.
I hope the same applies to the smaller 6kw unit.
We are speaking of the small bronze pump in the back of the gen, port side, correct ?


Posted By: Wayne's World
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 19:57
Marcopone,

Correct. If you look closely at the area where the pump is fitted into the motor housing you will see a small (7mm or 8mm I think) bolt which you need to remove. This clamps the pump in place. Remove the two sea water pipes from the pump. Then once this bolt is removed you need to pull the pump aft to take it out of the motor casing. You may need to use a large screw driver to help lever the pump aft. Rotating the pump back and forth may also help. There are other larger bolts near where the pump fits into the motor casing but you do not need to loosen these. Once you know how to remove the pump it only takes 15 minutes to remove one pump and replace it with a new or serviced pump. 


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Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2024


Posted By: Black Diamond
Date Posted: 09 September 2018 at 13:40
I do the same with my outboard motor.   I keep an entire carb as a spare so I can swap it out. Here in the US its tough to buy gasoline without ETHANOL in the fuel (up to 10 or 15%).    The ethanol gums up everything in the carb and I like to spend a proper amount of time cleaning the one I took off the engine.

Over time, the ETHANOL in your tank or in the marina's fuel tanks turns into a parfait of sorts with water, ethanol and gasoline in layers.   If you are unlucky enough to get bad fuel from the marina, or yours went bad, the carb will need to be cleaned after it gums up.

FWIW - I keep spares for everything...   Only the really expensive engine spares I think hard about..  Water pumps, gen parts, outboard parts, etc.. I usually have 2-3 spares.




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Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI



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