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Battery Problem

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 385/388
Forum Description: 385/388 Hints, Tips and News
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10903
Printed Date: 01 December 2022 at 16:13
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Battery Problem
Posted By: Axel
Subject: Battery Problem
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 12:14
Dear Hanse friends,

Yesterday I came back to the boat after 6 weeks and I discovered that my batteries have lost 214 Ah of capacity.
The voltage was 11.8 V. My Victron battery controller showed 0.00 A current. When I left the boat 6 weeks before the main switch was off and the victron showed also 0.00 A. In the mean time the victron registered the loss of 214 Ah. How can this happen? I know that the VHF works without the main switch and the light at the entrance. Both were off.
Is there any other part consuming electricity? Has anybody made a similar experience?

Greetings from Ugljan, Croatia

Axel





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Hanse 385 #434 Nyanga 2



Replies:
Posted By: Wayne's World
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 15:47
Axel,

Your bilge pump/s are connected straight to your power source and will run with all battery switches turned off. Could you have had water in the boat? Have you check the bilges? Check the bilge pumps are able to run by moving the float switches. If they don't run they may have had a fault and kept running until they burnt out?


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Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2023


Posted By: Konstantin
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 17:59
I got my batteries drained completely on 445 once when leaving the boat I closed all secocks and coming back I found that aircon condensation sump pump was wired around the kill switch and so kept going pushing water into closed seacock until the juice ran out from the service bank. 750 Eur lesson right there.


Posted By: Axel
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 18:21
Dear Wayne,

I checked the bilge pump. Everything ok. Bilge is dry. Pump is working properly.

Dear Konstantin ,

this sounds serious! The seacock was closed. You are sure that the condensation pump of the aircondition is not connected to the main switch? Our batteries are not yet destroyed,  but nearby.

Greetings


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Hanse 385 #434 Nyanga 2


Posted By: Jeremy
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 19:41
Hi Axel,
Ive just had to replace my AGM batteries. They were 5 years old and I found that when they were left with no charging sources connected they would self discharge at an alarming rate.
When I got the batteries tested at full charge one was at 35 amp hours and one at 41. Both are 165ah batteries. This all happened very fast, not a slow deterioration at all. So it may pay to check your battery health.

Failing that. Find the shunt for the battery controller. Are there any other negative sources connected before the shunt on the battery side? There shouldn't be, because if there are their current wont be measured on the controller. The battery will drain but the meter will just show 0 amps.


Posted By: Konstantin
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 20:08
Hi Alex, yes unfortunately, I found out the hard way. When I connected shore power the first buzz I heard was the aircon sump pump helplessly trying to pump the water through the seacock I closed myself 2 weeks earlier. That happened last year so the scar on my heat healed )))
As for the batteries I now run "dead-cell test" regularly to check if I have a faulty cell in the batteries developing. Google it or look here https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/blog/how-to-troubleshoot-deep-cycle-battery-issues/


Posted By: PeggyLeon
Date Posted: 31 August 2018 at 20:15
Hi...i got a new charger installed and the installer did not put the settings via laptop for battery type etc, but I do not believe that this is the reason as they were not "cooked". Maximum charging is 14.5 Volt which is line for AGMs. Now the charger goes to absorption and float within minutes. As we have no shore power I can not use the float for a couple of hours to see if they fully charge.

https://www.7pcb.com/PCB-Fabrication.php" rel="nofollow - printed circuit boards


Posted By: Axel
Date Posted: 15 October 2018 at 18:19
After returning to the boat after 8 weeks, the batteries were still full. I kept the sea valve of the aircon open. It seems that this was really the reason.

Greetings  from Croatia sitting in the rain

Axel
 


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Hanse 385 #434 Nyanga 2


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 16 October 2018 at 19:22
Once I had the same problem when I keped the Victron Multiplus on the wrong setting! 

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Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 19 October 2018 at 21:56
Question:  Are the forward and aft bilge pump inside the plastic box for the Air Conditioner condensation? One of my units won't stop running when I turn the DC panel on and there is no water in the box??  Thanks for any help  Joe


Posted By: Jean Claude
Date Posted: 20 October 2018 at 08:02
Hello, my english is not very good, I am sorry, but I understand that your news batterys dont keep the charge?
I have a 2017 HANSE 415.
My batterys are very quicly discharged.
Exemple: After 8 h of navigation with the engine, a night of mooring without charger and at the morning the tension is 10.6 V.
When the technicians test the batterys there are OK, when he test the installation there no currents falling.
Anybody has the same probleme?
PS: A friend of me buy his HANSE 415 at the same date and he have the same probleme.


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SEA SOON


Posted By: Axel
Date Posted: 20 October 2018 at 08:24
Dear Joe,
I have only one pump in a plastic box. There is a switch inside. It switches the pump, if there is a certain level of water. Yours is probably blocked. But my is not connected to the Wurth panel.

Greetings Axel


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Hanse 385 #434 Nyanga 2


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 20 October 2018 at 08:54
Salut Jean-Claude,
 
I assume that you have the AGM batteries. At 10.6 they are dead and it seems that your charger can not revitalize them any more to a sufficient capacity level.
 
I once had this when a "friendly" visitor to our marina unplugged my shore power and the fridge drained the batteries completely. I had to replace both batteries at a cost of approx. 800 €.
 
Now I have a small device installed, which switches the fridge off when the voltage level drops below 12 Volts. I have a drain pump for the grey water sump and this is in fact always connected to power apparently  like the pumps on you boat. Do you have a battery controller installed ( Victron, Philippi …. ) ? This will tell you any consumption in your absence.
 
 
 


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Frank


Posted By: Jean Claude
Date Posted: 20 October 2018 at 13:08
Hello,
I have not till a battery monitor. I will buy one quicly.
About my batterys, are you sure they are deads?
This is 2 Victron 165 AH AGM Deep discharge 2 years old. I am affraid.....
Would you tell me the name of the device who switch the fridge?
I will buy one too.
You think that Hanse sale the boats with no protection of deep discharging?


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SEA SOON


Posted By: Axel
Date Posted: 20 October 2018 at 13:22
Hello Jean Claude,
the fridge has a switch at 9.6 V. That is very low. Try to charge the batteries with the Megapulse. That can help when the batteries are weak.



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Hanse 385 #434 Nyanga 2


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 21 October 2018 at 09:42
Gents, I have posted the state of charge diagram for AGM's in the other battery thread. Even if you dare to discharge them 80% you should not fall below the 11.6 Volt threshold. The Hanse fridge hat a low voltage protection set at 10.6 Volt ( might be ok for standard lead acid batteries ) but not for AGM's.
After a nasty experience I have fitted a adjustable voltage switch, set at 12.0 Volts between the switch panel fridge plug and the fridge.
Bilge and grey water pumps are still directly wired to the house battery. During winterstorage I disconnect the service battery bank by unsecrewing all negative cables.
 


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Frank


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 21 October 2018 at 09:44

Jean Claude,

si tu as encore des questions,  n'hesite pas de m'envoyer une PM en Francais
 
Cordiales Salutations
 


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Frank


Posted By: Jean Claude
Date Posted: 21 October 2018 at 11:18
Merci beaucoup, je vais acheter et essayer.

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SEA SOON


Posted By: Mr Bluesky
Date Posted: 09 November 2018 at 20:22
Fendant, Thank you for the info on the battery guard, I will buy one now and fit at W/E. I have 80w solar panel which helps, when the batteries were new I could last 3 days without shore charge, after 3 seasons only one day at sail now before a top up. I intend to add another 80w panel this winter, and probably buy 2 new 165ah agm service batteries, as I’m sure next spring they will be shot.

Bang on another thousand as they say:(

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Mr Blue Sky - 385 #359 - Sail safe sail Hanse.


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 10 November 2018 at 20:23
My air conditioner bilge stopped working. I replaced it and still no luck. I tested the new and old unit conneted directly on battery and both work. The wires leading to the bilge test at 12.6. Anybody know what I should check next?? Thanks


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 11 November 2018 at 04:51
Hi Bluesky,
 
maybe you give it a try by attaching a megapulse from http://www.novitec.de" rel="nofollow - www.novitec.de . There are some positive reports that it my refresh degenerated batteries ( one is in Palstek 4/2012 unfortunately in German ). Megapulse is around 50 € a piece.
 
On the net you find controversy discussion, 50% think that megapulse is battery voodoo. 50% think it saved them $$$'s. I can't explain the physics and the chemistry behind it. I used it on my last boat on standard gel batts, which were still ok after 8 years. I also heard a rumour that such a device is built into the Sterling chargers


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Frank


Posted By: chrgra
Date Posted: 13 November 2018 at 22:17
I have constant battery issues.

After consulting a specialist,i got the advice to upgrade the standard charger to at least 15% of the capacity of the batteries eg 50 amp in stead of 30 or 35.

I will give it a try nexy season.

And of course I have a battery saver like fendant adviced, but be aware that the Vhf, bilge pump and one cabine light are directly connected to the batteries

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Hanse 385 Charlotte #363


Posted By: pdc78
Date Posted: 12 December 2018 at 20:36
Dear Frank. Whilst I have yet to suffer battery problems on my 345 I am concerned to prevent excessive fridge discharge of the AGM bank and have ordered a 148A battery guard device to install during the close season. Please could you explain where exactly you have installed the device - under the fridge or on / behind the Wurth panel? A photo would be really useful. Thanks, Paul


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 12 December 2018 at 21:35
Installation of the battery guard is very simple. You can see from the pictures that there are two pairs of terminals, one marked "load" and the other "battery"
The device should be fitted close to the main switchboard. On my 385 I fitted it on the fold down door on the left (aft) side of the Wurth panel.
You need to identify the connection on the panel that is for the fridge. I am nowhere near my boat so can't help with that, but from memory it is also on the left (aft) side of the panel.
You simply need to disconnect this cable from the Wurth panel and attach it to the "load" terminals and then take a new cable from the "battery" terminals to the Wurth panel.
I can confirm that this device does the job but I have found the adjustment screw very crude and difficult to know what voltage will trigger the battery protection.

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H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 13 December 2018 at 06:14
Hi Paul,
Stuart has described the installation absolutely correctly. The easiest installation is behind the Würth panel. The grey/blue fridge plug is indeed on the left side of the PCB when you open the panel, it is on my boat the only one there. Here is a photo of my installation, my battery guard is velcroed to the right side wall.
I also struggled to find the right position of the adjustment screw. Finally I decided to set it to 75% of the whole range, hoping that this will disconnect the fridge at 12.5 Volts.
 


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Frank


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 03 January 2019 at 18:08
An help you can provide regard me engine not charging my service batteries?? Shore power works but not engine? Thanks


Posted By: Samtutuki
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 04:32
How do you know the engine driven charger is not working. What are the symptoms.


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 12:26
With engine running I put the amp meter on the house batteries and it stays at the same voltage, there is no increase. At the engine the alternator is sending out a charge. There starter battery is keeping a full charge.
Am I missing something simple? Thanks


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 12:37
Hi Joey, have you checked your VSR Relay ? 
 
This one should have a blue LED with the engine not running.
It needs a connection to the house battery ( this is sometimes "forgotten" when service guys decouple the batteries at the + terminal ).
 
 
 
 


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Frank


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 15:06
Hi Fendant, Were is the VSR Relay located?  I looked by the batteries as well as behind panels and could not find?  Thanks Joe


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 17:38
Dear Joey,
 
the Sterling VSR I have is the little red unit behind the battery.


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Frank


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 18:23
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=c1be8a2611&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-f:1622207042420305354&th=16833cb5d3996dca&view=att&disp=safe" rel="nofollow - Preview attachment IMG_1492.jpg
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=c1be8a2611&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-f:1622207042420305354&th=16833cb5d3996dca&view=att&disp=safe" rel="nofollow">Image
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=c1be8a2611&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-f:1622207042420305354&th=16833cb5d3996dca&view=att&disp=safe" rel="nofollow - IMG_1492.jpg






My boat is a 2014 and the unit looks different then what you show.
The unit I have is a Whisper Power Battery Link.  I assume it does the same thing but would not know how to test?
Thanks
Joe 


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=c1be8a2611&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-f:1622207042420305354&th=16833cb5d3996dca&view=att&disp=safe" rel="nofollow -
-


Posted By: Joey D
Date Posted: 01 February 2019 at 17:05
FYI, with your help and direction I learned a bit along the way. My 2014 Hanse 415 had a different ASR than you had indicated so there was no light to indicate working properly.  When I put a meter on the unit it was not getting enough power to close the circuit.  I found a fuse up by the Starting Battery that I didn't know existed.  I change the fuse and the ASR to a Blue Sea.  ALL GOOD NOW, both batteries are charging at 13.3......A HAPPY SAILOR AGAIN!

Thanks all  


Posted By: pdc78
Date Posted: 06 July 2019 at 11:46
Hi Frank.  I did fit a battery guard per your advice, and all went well other than battling to refit the same large gauge cable into the Wago 769 plug on the Wurth panel.  
I have now also improved the ventilation to the fridge compressor.  The good news is that the fridge cabinet has been well insulated with foam when the boat was built (2016) so no scope to improve on that, but I was horrified to find that there was NO ventilation whatsoever. The fan was simply circulating air within a totally enclosed sealed void around the compressor.  I have now ducted the intake so that it draws air from the saloon seating area, and fitted a CPU fan to extract air into the storage cabinet below the oven - let's see - so far so good.
Anyway the key point of this post is to share my discovery that the compressor has been wired (C-P terminals linked) to give the lowest possible battery cut out voltage (9.6v) and that by fitting a 82k resistor between C-P you can change the Danfoss unit to cut out at 11.3v and cut in at 12.5v which is much less harmful to the AGM batteries we have on the 345.
This may be an alternative (cheaper) solution than the battery guard.
Thanks, Paul


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H345 #269


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 06 July 2019 at 12:52
Interesting that you mention the resistor to adjust the compressor cutout.  I have recentlyy experienced strange behaviour with my fridge and in the course of trouble shooting I also found outabout this

I heard my fridge cycling on andoff and when I investigated found that the current was sitting at about 4-5awith the compressor running then the compressor seemed to stop and the current spiked briefly to 10-11A before dropping back to 4-5A with the compressor restarting. My battery monitorr reported 12.6V
The symptoms disappeared after fully charging the battery.  I did find corrosion on the connection from the width panel to compressor so I replaced the plug.  h

No furtherr issues but I wonder if anyone else has experienced similar?s


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H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising



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