Print Page | Close Window

470e keel - survey results

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: Older Models
Forum Description: Hints and Tips on Older Models
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12504
Printed Date: 18 August 2022 at 15:42
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 470e keel - survey results
Posted By: marabou
Subject: 470e keel - survey results
Date Posted: 02 February 2021 at 16:42
Hi everyone,

I'm well into the purchase of a 2008 470e and just received the survey results. Apart from normal wear and tear there are two issues with the keel (2.60 version).  I'd be grateful if someone here with the knowledge could send their thoughts.

1) There is a 5cm vertical crack near the centre of the keel. Is this due to the keel construction ( https://www.myhanse.com/keel-repair_topic6950_page1.html" rel="nofollow - hollow iron windows ) or is it something more serious (keel bolt)?

2) I know that the bilge area where the keel bolts live https://www.myhanse.com/uploads/3845/P11006730002.JPG" rel="nofollow - should be nice and clean, with a yellow epoxy beading around it . Apparently the previous owner has sprayed the area silver which covers the beading material. Is this suspicious in your opinion?

Just to inform you that the boat was inspected out of the water and there was no opportunity to check for leaks.

Thank you for taking the time to review my post - looking forward to being a Hanse owner!











































Replies:
Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 07:34
Bit hard to comment on.  Clearly the keel attachment is pretty important to a buy-no buy decision.   You really need to ask the surveyor.   And ask the owner why they sprayed silver.  Maybe further investigation.   It may not be anything problematic but best not ignored.

Guessing that the paint is to cover up rusty bolts.   In which case, as you say, is there a leak?  The Hanses I have had have all been fully dry around the keel bolts.   Any water collects in other parts of the bilges.

Checking a keel for damage from collision is a pretty important thing when considering buying a boat.

So ask more questions.


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 07:44
It could have been the case that the water tank was leaking and the steel frame was discoloured because of that. Maybe they only wanted to make that nicer. The Keel bolts wouldn't rust.

Maybe somebody has a drawing of the Keel windows. Makes sense that these are the cracks. The keel bolts would go to the bottom and even with an accident such a crack wouldn't really make sense.

BR Thomas


-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 08:09
Keel bolts are Stainless Steel.  Which does rust although not structurally.   So although bolts probably ok that is an indication of water.   And a good question as to where that water is from.


Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 09:41
this is the 470 keel.
it seems to me the crack is from one of the windows.


-------------
Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268


Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 10:09
about the bolts.
From new , some people (I do) do a amount of paint on the mutter and washer to check for a crack in the paint after a grounding so you can check the keel have moved yes or no.
In this case the painting is done after water is coming in, so far I can see on the pictures, the questions are: salt or fresh water and where did it come from ???
any good surveyor can find this out. IMO


-------------
Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268


Posted By: marabou
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 10:48
Thank you very much everyone, very much obliged. A little update:

I have been in contact with the owner and asked for their survey (when they bought it, last summer).

Their reply was that they don't have an official survey - they inspected the boat themselves, and that this paint and crack issues should not trouble us. They haven't painted the keel plate and it didn't trouble them. Overall they have been very polite with me and no 'red flags' appeared so far during the sale. Also to state, that other than this, the boat is in near perfect condition.

However, based on your replies here on the forum plus the opinion of an experienced broker / surveyor in Athens who looked at the photos, I am having reservations proceeding with the purchase, fearing an expensive repair bill in case salt water is entering the keel bolt plate area.

The options I am considering now are:
1) Locating the previous owner in Spain and ask them why the keel plate was painted silver
2) Arrange for a new survey with a local Hanse specialist
3) Go for a sea trial there myself (tricky due to covid)

Does anyone know of a Hanse specialist in Cap d'Agde France / South France area please?

Again, many thanks for your support.


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 13:45
Eric Forner on Mallorca used to be a great specialist. You should ask the original Hanse dealer aobut the water tank on this boat. there where tanks leaking because of poor welding. if this boat had a major tank repair than the bilge would have seen water. 

I wouldn't be concerned about this problem however I would always sail this boat and check any movement on the keel anyhow.

The window crack on the keel must be repaired properly otherwise you have salt water in the keel which will not cause structural problem but you will see rust coming through.

BR Thomas


-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 19:07
Have you had a survey done?  If so what do they say?  If not, it is very advisable to do so - if not essential.


Posted By: marabou
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 19:37
Hi Colnic,

Yes, we had a survey carried out, in fact it was them who sent us the photos. Their findings were:

Re: keel bolts area painted gray
"No yellow or black epoxy seal but grey paint (see pics), but it looks like original or been in place for a long time, no cracks or leakage."

Re: keel crack
"There is a +/- 5cm crack in the keel, I would suggest grinding this crack to see what caused it to crack (see overall pic and detailed Keel crack pic)."

I assume the surveyor did not know that the stock hanse keel bolt plates are made of aluminium, hence no paint necessary in principle?

Also the survey was done outside the water so there was no real way to test for leakage...

Thanks again for your replies - we are going to carry out a sea trial to check for leakage. In the meantime, any thoughts are very welcome.




Posted By: colinc
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 19:45
If they say no leakage then that isn't a problem.   It is impossible really to tell that just looking at the photos.   Ditto whether paint is old or new.   The surveyor is the one to rely on.   They have hands on and experience.

So show surveyor the photo of keel construction, and if they still say so, follow investigation advice - assuming current own allows.



Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 19:57
Originally posted by marabou marabou wrote:

Hi Colnic,


I assume the surveyor did not know that the stock hanse keel bolt plates are made of aluminium, hence no paint necessary in principle?




I do not believe the keel counter plate is aluminium 
On our 545 they are galvanized steel fixed in epoxy 



-------------
Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 03 February 2021 at 20:22
if you have a GRP innerliner (l think all Hanses except the 470) the plates should be stainless steel
On the Hanse 470 you have a steel innerframe galvanized. I assume that the keel is bolted directly to that fram but not 100% sure. 


-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: marabou
Date Posted: 28 February 2021 at 11:27
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions.

We did a sea trial in ideal testing conditions and the bilge stayed dry.

Indeed the steelwork had been painted silver but no evident signs of corrosion. The keel bolts & engine mounts looked undisturbed with no signs of a grounding.

The 470e has been bought, see you all in the water!


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 01 March 2021 at 01:48
Good luck with the new member of your family. Thumbs Up
If the thru-hulls are older than 8-10 years, you should plan an exchange. The vertical crack should be rinsed of the corrosion, and closed again.
It was mentioned, that the keel bolts are of stainless steel. That does not sound realistic. SS has more carbon in the mix, and is weaker than normal steel. In my H400 the ten M40 bolts and the plates are made of zinc-plated steel. Have a look at my 15 year old bolts: (The blue stuff is Loctite). Update: If you believe that your bolts are SS, prove it with a picture. The difference is plainly visible.




-------------
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 01 March 2021 at 08:15
I am pretty shure that the keel bolts are Stainless steel and not galvanized. Although your are right in saying that galvanized steel is stronger.

BR Thomas


-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net