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Diesel Air Heater

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 385/388
Forum Description: 385/388 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13132
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 12:20
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Diesel Air Heater
Posted By: Goat
Subject: Diesel Air Heater
Date Posted: 10 December 2021 at 20:10
Hi all,

I'm wanting to fit a diesel air heater to a 385 and wonder if anyone has any experience and can offer advice.

The plan is a heater in the aft void space run to the two aft cabins and heads.  Questions are;

1. What output heater do people use (or Hanse fit)?  Is a Webasto STC 2000 adequate?  Has anyone fitted one of the many cheap copies from eBay?
2. On the diesel fuel tank there's the fuel line to the engine and return line with valves, in between these is a smaller calibre threaded tube.  Is this a pick up that can be used for a heater, does anyone know what size the thread is for a valve?   
3.  Any other top tips?

Thanks 



Replies:
Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 11 December 2021 at 10:31
Hello Adrian,

the middle pipe is indeed the pick-up for the diesel heater. I have no experience with the cheapo Russian heaters. But I have heard good comments about the new aeroheat heasters, which are quieter and have eliminated the ticking pump.
Good Luck with the installation of the ducts. Use by all means the big 90 mm from the heater through the engine room to an outlet under the companionway, From there you can branch to the cabins and the toilet.
Running even a 60 / 75 mm duct to the front cabin is a PITA!


-------------
Frank


Posted By: Brufan
Date Posted: 11 December 2021 at 10:35
I use this kind of heaters for 30+ years now.

When I ordered my H355 form new I picked yard's optional heater Eberspacher D4.
If you want to retrofit one, you have to find the holes in bulkheads and lockers with are cutted as standard.  The third fuel "pickup" over the tank is there for this purpose.

As for your questions :
1. 2 kw is too small unless you live in on of the warmer climate.  Go for a 4 or 5 kW if you want to heat the hole yacht including forecabin.
"E-bay" Chinese copies run but can be dangerous.  They come usually with an installation kit for RV winch are not suited for marine (Exhaust pipe & silencer are not completely gas tight on RV since they are fitted outside under the vehicle - not on a yacht).  As for a "Webasto copy", have a look at Planar Autotherm (Russian made with CE certificate)
2. Yes
3. better insulate air pipes as much as you can.  Better fuel efficient and noise réduction.


-------------
Bruno

hanse 355 - 57

S/Y Spicy Ginger

White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system, Simrad (now B&G)-Jefa autopilot.


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 11 December 2021 at 10:37
I had a very over specc’d D4 on my 31 (non cored, eg solid laminate) previous boat and Hanse fit a D4 plus (bigger fan) to my cored hull 418

Ideally I’d have higher capacity on the 418 but I don’t think Eberspacher offer anything appropriate. The D4 is ok on the 418 because of the properties of the balsa core but It does take a while to get to temperature (eg a couple hours from single digits to 18 degrees). Once it’s warm though it’s fine and has sufficient capacity.

I fitted the heating to my previous boat and it was very simple. I’d imagine the pick up you describe on your tank is for the heating but hard to tell without a picture. 

I should add that I insulated all my ducting (retro on the 418 & during install in the prior boat) - I’d strongly recommend doing so


-------------
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: FrankS
Date Posted: 13 December 2021 at 16:14
Hello all,
one advice : the tube that leads the diesel to the heater should not be too wide !
The heater, dealer-installed in my 345, gave a lot of problems in the first years ; difficult starting or no starting at all. Only the third mechanic immediately saw what caused the trouble : The tube, starting from the tank was too wide and thus gave troubles for the dieselpump in sucking up diesel for the heater.(mostly, I guess, when the level of diesel in the tank was dropping). Replacing the tube for a more narrow one solved all my problems and everything works now perfect..


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Hanse 345 2016 "STYX"


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 11 February 2022 at 11:24
Thanks all, that's useful advice.  I'm struggling to get the opportunity to get the work done but will report back when I've completed the project.


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 27 March 2022 at 15:45
Hi all,

We are starting to make progress with this project and it's good that the 385 is fitted for the heater with cut outs on furniture and hose runs.

On my last fact finding mission I couldn't remove the blank from the fuel pick up, it's a brass blank on the alloy pick up.  I assume this isn't a dissimilar metals problem but I'm clearly no engineer!

Questions; Does anyone know what size the fuel pick up threads are (seems the same as the shut off taps fitted)?  Is it a left hand thread or am I just weak?

Thanks


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 27 March 2022 at 18:29
While you are doing it, I would also put an outlet in the saloon as well.  Some of the outlets are adjustable so that you can vary where the heat is going.  My yacht does have an outlet in the front cabin, but I have to say there is not a lot of heat going there.  

Be mindful of the fact that the heater will be bringing moisture into the yacht.  Up in Scotland, we have a dehumidifier on board that we will run as well as the Webasto if we are in a marina. 

I also think it made a real difference putting insulation under the bed bases.  See a previous thread.

https://www.myhanse.com/minimising-condensation_topic12658_post104059.html?KW=insulation#104059" rel="nofollow - https://www.myhanse.com/minimising-condensation_topic12658_post104059.html?KW=insulation#104059

We are up on our yacht later this week, so I will see if I can finds out anything about the tank take off.  On our yacht there is a valve of exactly the same type as for the engine feed.



-------------
Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 28 March 2022 at 15:58
Martin,

Thanks and a good tip re insulation under bed bases (I've just ordered some dry mat so we'll see if that helps insulate and reduce condensation).  We also have a dehumidifier and have been surprised how well the yacht survived her first winter in the UK! 

Our plan is to bring an outlet in the saloon just forward of the sink which will reduce the length of trunking and hopefully retain more heat. 

Andy at Inspiration Marine came back to me with the following re fuel tap which will be useful if anyone else searches this;

 Below is the factory fitted fuel shut off tap, this is ¼” with a regular right handed thread.

 

https://hanse.boatoon.com/en/shop/article/24200/ball-valve-14" rel="nofollow - https://hanse.boatoon.com/en/shop/article/24200/ball-valve-14

 



Posted By: Mark&Catherine
Date Posted: 01 April 2022 at 10:28
we have the factory fitted 4 KW D4, there is one open outlet in the saloon and adjustable (and closable) in the aft cabin, heads and forward cabin. We close or limit the outlet in the heads and rear cabin to get more heat into the forepeak, unless you want a really hot heads for a shower.  I think anything smaller than 4KW would be too small.

-------------
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine


Posted By: Carlosailfan
Date Posted: 01 April 2022 at 10:45
We also have the factory installed D4 and in winter time when it is freezing, 4 KW is in my opinion not enough if you ask a quick response for heating. After a few hours it is comfortable.

good luck !




-------------
Best regards
/C


Posted By: Fendant
Date Posted: 01 April 2022 at 11:45
I have fitted a small electric fan infront of the outlet in the forecabin. It helps , but ubulukutu is right, you have to close the aft cabin and head outlets to get heat to the front.

-------------
Frank


Posted By: Keakaka
Date Posted: 07 April 2022 at 01:58
Hi all, we have a 388 with the Eberspacher D4 heater. It works well but installation was a big project.
Major problems getting the electrics connected to the correct wiring -took 6 hours - make sure your service people have done it before. 
Also make sure the diesel supply line is primed full before you connect to the heater unit otherwise the heater cuts out because the pump cant suck up the fuel
We ran the ducts along the starbd side with vents into the rear cabin, saloon and forward berth. We get 4 degree temp lift in 15 minutes. We had trouble with suction pressure on the intake of the heater and had to disconnect a duct hose that was intended to draw air from inside the boat- the heater was cutting out thinking there was a blockage. I just take air directly from the lazarette. I put a small baffle plate in front of the heater intake to stop fenders or gear blocking or damaging the intake fan. I havent insulated the ducts yet but it seems to be OK.


-------------
This is not a rehearsal. Go for it. Kiakaha


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 19:45
Thanks for all the useful info.  We have just about achieved the installation of an Airo 5m from mvheating.co.uk .  Running the ducting went better than expected due to factory fitted cut outs, just needed a slight enlargement on the port side to run through from the lazerette.  We have outlets in each aft cabin, head and in the salon (aft end near sink, open).  Wiring needed to be run back to the battery as at start up the heater draws up to 25 amps, it took a bit of time to realise that! The angled through hull for the exhaust from MV marine was elliptical and would have been very difficult to fit so was changed for a straight Webasto one exiting to port side of the transom. Only issue remaining is the fuel.  The brass cap was fused to the alloy pick up which had to be cut off.  A new valve miraculously still fitted the remaining thread but with a big air leak meaning the heater kept shutting down. We are waiting on trying a new valve on this but the heater runs very well off a short term solution of using a tonic bottle as a fuel tank!  Overall the heater is excellent and very quickly warms the boat through, a very good addition.  Total cost of the install has been around £1800.


Posted By: Ubi bene
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 15:08
How did you access the space for the heating duct in the salon?
I am the owner of a 370e built in 2006 and last spring there was a leak from the engine diesel filter soaking the heat duct where it passes by the tank. When running the heater, this causes a lot of smoke when the duct gets hot, so I need to replace the duct. Do you have any pictures showing the work made?

Best regards
Børge Christian Mosgren 


-------------
Förstefender


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 15:05
Hi Borge,

With our 385 the duct run was very straightforward with factory cut routing from the aft lazarrette, splitting port and stbd just inside the bulkhead, under the stbd aft bunk behind the galley (accessible through the cupboard under the oven), behind the fridge and under the stbd sofa in the saloon.  We have brought the duct out just forward of the sink rather than run the length of the saloon.  Pushing the ducting through was surprisingly easy.

There was a picture of this routing in the owners safety manual (even though we didn't have it factory fitted).

I don't have any pictures and won't be on the yacht for a while but from what you describe I suspect your ducting may be more inaccessible.




Posted By: Ubi bene
Date Posted: 10 September 2022 at 18:14
Hi Adrian,

Thanks for your quick reply! I am not familiar with the differences in design of the salon between the 385 and the 370. On the 370 it seems difficult to open the top of the stb sofa to access the duct. The top front seems to be attached by screws only, but the fore end of the top back seems to have some kind of fibre glass reinforcement attached by sicaflex as well as screws. I don't feel comfortable with what may happen if this actally is a reinforcement and I remove it when the rig is under tension.
Any thoughts on this might help ease my mind.

BR Børge


-------------
Förstefender


Posted By: Goat
Date Posted: 11 September 2022 at 18:06
Hi Borge,

I don't think I can be of any help here and there is obviously a different between the 370 and 385.  All the ducting was accessible without removing any furniture (other than cushions) apart from short sections (such as behind the fridge).

I hope you manage to find a solution.

Adrian



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